Sharing Knowledge and Experience

[Humblej]

Is it me or has the philosophy of the Forum changed? I have been following this Forum since 2006 and find it a wealth of knowledge. Between the MTFCA Forum and the Encyclopedia my understanding of Model T ownership, restoration, and documentation has changed significantly. In the early 1970's as a 14 year old youth, there was little information available to correctly restore a Model T, with only basic information from the Ford Service Manual, Service Bulletins, the Les Henry Restoration Handbook, the MTFCA magazines, and know-it-all old farts that grew up during the Model T era and were full of pearls of wisdom like all Model T's are black, and you can fix anything with bailing wire and chewing gum. That all changed when I discovered the MTFCA Forum in the early 2000's, and the kind, helpful, patient, knowledgeable people that could provide insight, documentation, photos, and anecdotal don't do what I did advice. Is it me or has the Forum changed? Too many postings are vague "my engine lurches, my trunk lid leaks... and too many unhelpful or unserious responses of a joke, or off tangent meanderings, or off tangent to someone else's joke or meanderings. If a person asks a question, can they please follow up with if it was helpful or not, or is it just me?

[Henry K. Lee]

I believe we are all human and guilty as charged. Our world is changing so fast in a cyber "ask questions" instead of "reading up" on a subject as we were taught in school as the gray haired group. Now ask questions which we need clarification. I believe too our off track approach in sarcasm is to a way of dealing with the current situation in politics, covid, economics, etc. I am glad you bought this up as I have seen this too.

I have reservations at a personal level in sometimes giving advice due to a failure on my part to get two young men mentored/engaged/ and on the correct path so to say. Then we have people countering your experiences (not an expert, because no one is) in a negative light. So this in turn causes great confusion to the individual asking the question in the first place and they see only grumpy old people arguing. It does kill the issue they are attempting to remedy.

Everyone should read up first on true well written material before asking some of the questions I have seen many and will not reply on the forum when simply questions are ask due to lack of "doing your homework". We as old farts did as our fathers before us. Self education is a pleasure in itself, knowledge is forever, and one thing no one can take from you!

Humbled Hank

[Retro54]

It appears to me that much of the knowledge and experience has moved on, one way or the other. It appears that those who have mastered the 'old knowledge' regarding Ts are few and far between. If your post doesn't have tires, oil, or trailering in the subject, the interest in your photos or question seems to go way down. A few years ago, I think this post would have spawned some interesting conversation and opinions... these days it doesn't even raise interest. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24609

Is it because I'm asking a silly question or people just don't like me? I don't believe that at all, but I do truly belive that people who are active here no longer know the answers and so are not inclined to comment at all. Knowledge is moving on and if you can't find the answer in old forum searches, or have the right book, then I think you may be S.O.L.

Andy

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Jeff,

Where to begin... As time goes by, the gap, in years, between Model T's and those who own them grow ever wider. Newer owners are ever less informed, not just about T's, but of all things mechanical. We live now in a world of electrons and bytes, instead of nut & bolts. This leads to the uninformed questions you refer to. Consider also that our well seasoned knowledge base is shrinking. As to meandering and off topic responses... well I just don't know. That's just human nature I guess. You have sensed that this was not so much the case in the past. I don't know if I have seen the same, but if it's the case, then I blame Social Media and the "times we're living in", (to use a well hated cliche). The so called social media media craze has taught us to "socialize" via the internet. Therefore, it's possible that people are excersizing the same conversational, jovial "speech" that they may use in any other exchange. As to the "times" aspect, after being shut in for a considerable stretch, especially in 2020, our ability to socialize was greatly diminished, (in most cases). I think that caused us to "ramble" a bit on one of the few social exchanges that we had at our disposal. I try very much to be helpful, but sometimes also try to interject some humor, (humorous to me at least ), I hope it's not too despised.

For the most part, everyone here is trying to help. As with any gathering of minds, there will be disagreement, wandering thoughts, off topic remarks, ill conceived humor, etc. It's nothing that we or any new participant to the forum has not experienced every day in life. The net result however a positive one.

Henry,

Don't see "failure" in your attempts to mentor these 2 young men. The seeds we plant sometimes do not take root for many years. We never "fail" when we try in earnest to help someone along. Trying to help our fellow humans, especially the young ones, is a victory in itself. It's not always an easy thing to do! Be proud of your efforts... I am.

Yes, it's frustrating when excellent advice is countered by others. Whether that excellent advice was given by yourself or others. Then to, some of my own "excellent advice" has turned out to be not so excellent when countered by others. For those times, I am grateful! So, it can go both ways.

[perry kete]

The school systems continue to remove shop classes that teach us how to work with our hands and repair equipment. Most new products are developed to throw away insted of repair then the less knowledge is available on how to. Most cars and such are hooked to a machine that tells the person what to pull out and what replacement to plug back in. No trouble shooting or repair skills needed just plug & replace.
No need for problem solving. The internet is so full of false information it is scary. I see people beating on engines with hammers and using pipe wrenches and adjustable wrenches instead of the proper tools and giving instructions on how to repair something that they know nothing about just to get their picture on Youtube!

I believe less people are sharing their knowledge on the forum not only because those who did have the knowledge have passed on, but also because when someone offers a suggestion on how to repair it they are attacked by others.

I am guilty of often injecting humor into the forum not just to post something but to help releive the stress & frustration the poster is exhibits in the post. It's my way of saying take a deep breath, relax everything will be OK, we've all been there.

[Norman Kling]

The attitude of many has changed to one of impatience. There is a young man who I know and have helped many times. This fellow is now in graduate school, a very intelligent man. However, when we are working on his T, I will show him how to do something, and if he can't do it immediately, the first time he tries, he wants to try some other way. Things such as when adjusting the Rocky Mountain Brakes. When I get things close, I will turn the clevis one half turn and check again until I get it right. However, when he would try it, he would take it up many turns and then it was too tight. So He might even want to buy another set!
I think this is how the later generations think. It is "Plug it in". If it quits, throw it away and plug in a new one.
My grandmother had a whole jar of used buttons, and if I lost one she would find one similar to it and sew it on. Today the attitude is: If a button comes off, get a new shirt!
Anyway, those who like T's soon learn to tinker!
Norm

[speedytinc]

I am a very recent contributor here. In the past I rarely came here for a look. The typical answer to a serious question had 2 or 3 excellent responses & a dozen ignorant, ridiculous ones. Maybe I think I know to much? I have always been concerned, that the reader has to select the correct answer form this pile. I dont see as many responses from those guys's answers I respected back then. Some guys I respect & value their knowledge cant be bothered responding here For the same reason, I watched the video series as a comedy bit. Some of the advice is downright deadly(welding a cracked brake band!) Editing!
I was taught early on from an old T master. & have 40 years experience built on top. It aint from duffing around, I like the builds & repairs too much. learned lots the hard way. I was directed here via google for an answer & grew to tolerate & actually enjoy. Now I spend too much time here. There should be a program. I'll be around till I'm no longer wanted. I do worry about hogging so much response time, But I dont feel legitimately contradicted much. I will reflect on & defend something I am sure of if called out wrongly. I hope my input is helpful. Anyway, its free.
Like taking a T to an old forks home, you get more than you give.
I feel a bit eleetest when I feel the need to ask if the poster has the T1 manual. Other than that, I may give up on this guy & put the effort toward the worthy. Maybe there should be a prominent message come up before asking a question about their ownership & usage of this bible? Do your homework. When I have a question, I try a search first. I keep an open mind & delight in learning new T stuff. Oil & coolant debates, I can pass on to a different subject line. Some stuff, you can lead a horse... Doesnt offend me, learn it the hard way. I hate to see the needless damage & heart ache.
Overall this is currently a good & worthwhile place to spend some time giving & receiving. Model T people are the best.

Lot of good responses here every time I start to submit. Right on Norm. I recognize you as some of the top advice givers. A personal thank you.

[TXGOAT2]

I find this forum to be very helpful. It is the best resource for general reference and for preserving and making available advice and methodology developed through experienced individuals' hands-on experience dealing with Model T issues and the issues affecting them arising from age, wear, and the absence of manufacturer support. Questions from the uninitiated and "just curious" proceed from an active interest in Model Ts, and such interest ought to be encouraged, as it is in the general interest of the hobby to do so, and it supports those who have invested in the hobby as parts suppliers and service providers.

[Norman Kling]

Some questions are vague to the reader, but clear to the asker. An example is: What causes my car to lurch? What does the questioner mean by lurch? Since the answerer does not understand the question, he can think of several possible meanings and so gives several possible answers.
Lurching could be caused by chattering bands. It could be caused by fuel richness adjustment. It could also be caused by a weak spark plug which intermittently fires or a coil with a weak spark. It could also be caused by a sticking or leaking valve. It could even be caused by a leaky intake manifold gasket etc. Even a loose u joint or wide gear spacing in differential. I could go on and on.
So if the questioner gives more detail which includes exactly what he was doing when the car lurched. when asking the question a better answer could be given.
Norm

[Rich Bingham]

Too often the humor of a "smart-alec" comment is only funny for the "initiated".
Very often contradictory answers pile up to the point a neophyte couldn't possibly parse out an answer that would serve his needs. Not infrequently none of the contradictory posts are "wrong" in and of themselves, just twists of experience and perception.

For those posing questions, many times not enough information is given in order to pose an adequate answer. Overall, I think forum members are doing a good service by being patient and helpful. What other motive would one have when responding to a question ? I think we do well in adhering to the proposition that "there's no such thing as a dumb question". I would hope we all continue to be kind !

[TXGOAT2]

I appreciate the timer roller thread and pictures. I would be happy to contribute any information I could to it, but I don't have any specific timer roller knowledge to share.

[Retro54]

I appreciate the timer roller thread and pictures. I would be happy to contribute any information I could to it, but I don't have any specific timer roller knowledge to share.

I dig it. I'm trying to learn myself. And am not frustrated by the lack of responses. I truly think in this case it's a specialized knowledge set that few have. I'll keep trolling for answers.

[Steve Jelf]

I got into the game later than some, but I've been a forum participant for fourteen years. Given the demographic situation here, leaning in a decidedly elderly direction, it's not surprising that the Grim Reaper has taken some the most knowledgeable members. Some former regulars have dropped out for various other reasons. I miss many of those who are gone, but the departure of some has improved the forum. If you go back and read the forum several years ago, you will see a boy of thirteen driven away by hostile posts accusing him of being a middle-aged troll. You will see a guy who styled himself a true patriot express his contempt for all who disagreed in any way with his crackpot political posts. (His final post was a threat to shoot someone.) You will see guys who are obviously expert in their Model T knowledge, but can't play nicely with others and descend into nasty personal insults.

Considering the fact that we still have some folks who know their stuff, and that most of the worst offenders are gone, I would say that the current forum overall is better than what it was.

[TRDxB2]

Relax and accept the fact that people (members of the Forum too) have a variety of personalities, knowledge and ways of expressing themselves.
I always like to separate wisdom from knowledge - "knowledge is having facts, information, and skills through education (being taught, self study etc)" "Wisdom is knowledge enhanced by experience (having made that mistake once before, what works for you. etc)" As the World around us causes us to change our ways and our ability to do the things we used to do dwindles there is no doubt why we are destined to become Grumpy Old Men

[Steve Jelf]

As the World around us causes us to change our ways and our ability to do the things we used to do dwindles there is no doubt why we are destined to become Grumpy Old Men

Amen! With advancing feebleness, increasing clumsiness, and difficulty seeing what I'm doing, I should be a total grump.

[Rich Bingham]

We have no choice whether to grow old, the alternative has minimal appeal
We can, however, choose not to be grumpy, no matter how difficult that may be at times !

[JohnM]

IMHO, I find this forum to be very informative and entertaining. The banter is generally good natured and often very humorous. It is populated by some very intelligent and patient people. I do not post that often, but I look almost every day.

In society, people in general have become more coarse, rude, shortsighted, self centered and impulsive. (If our leaders truly represent us, and I think they do. ) It stands to reason that nature will occasionally find its way to this forum. I am thankful that is not often the case.

[jab35]

Humbled Hank probably said it best.

[John kuehn]

Hank the Humbled or as he said best Humbled Hank said it all in the last paragraph of his timely post.
Reading the avaliable information such a Manuals by Ford and the different MTFCA manuals for different aspects of the car can help immensely. No kidding.
You never stop learning about T’s but reading and studying all you can really does help. I’m like others sometimes about the questions that get asked on the forum and that’s how you learn BUT lots can be learned from reading the Ford manual first. The T videos that are available are good learning tools too.
Please folks don’t take this in the wrong way and keep asking questions. I learn things on the forum from time to time and need all the help I can get!

[John iaccino]

I got my first T at the age of30. I am now 70 and consider myself knowledgeable about Model T's. When I first got my Ford, I would ask my older brother a question and his reply would always be, 'did you read your Dyke's Manual?' I would then say no, and he would then say 'go read the manual'. After asking enough questions and receiving the same answer over and over I then would look it up before I asked. Just trying to illustrate the importance of digesting reading material before asking the question. John