My '16 Touring appears running hot - please help

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:05 pm

Hello.
Today I did the first start of my Lizzy inside my garage after finishing the long repair of my clutch. So it was very exciting to me, will she start at all, how will she run? I can say, she is running well and smoothly, and she started on third try, so I am very happy...

After 5 minutes of idling the temperature was so high that steaming coolant was ejected through the overflow tube. I could also see the front side of radiator upper chamber wobbling, so the engine was slightly boiling, I guess.

The radiator is brass type with round pipes, so it is an old type one. But I cannot see debris inside (only a very thin brown layer), so I think this is pretty normal? When the radiator was unmounted, I could see a thin brown calcium layer covering the inner of the engine head, but t was very thin, I would say "normal",

From my understanding, this car should be able to idle without boiling, so I think my adjustments are not correct. I need to say that I am a bloody novice in this, All I did in last two years was buying it, spending immense work in new electrification and restoration, getting a license plate, and finally experiencing that the clutch is not working - so another repair....

What I did:

I measured the distance between bolt-center of oil fill stub and timer eye - it is 62 mm when spark advance lever is fully up (late ignition), this is perfectly according the service manual.
After priming the engine, it started on 3rd pull. I moved the spark advance lever with its tip to 9:00 position (this increased its speed) and switched from battery to magneto.
I reduced the gas mixing ratio from 1 1/2 turns until the engine ran smoothly, this was approx. 1 1/4 turns on cold engine.
When I saw that coolant was ejected and also saw the wobbling radiator, I stopped the engine, but I did not hear any boiling sound.
After some minutes I started the engine again and reduced the gas mixture until it started to run worse, then I turned up the gas a little bit until it ran smoothly again. (So the engine was running close to lowest gas mixture level now.)
Situation was now a little bit better and I stopped the engine. After 1/2 hour the radiator was still so hot that I couldn't touch it, but I opened the radiator cap to check coolant level. The coolant level is approx. 1" above the internal sheet metal. I will re-check on cold engine to see how much it differs.

A good friend from Germany (he helped me a lot with his knowledge) told me that this engine becomes hotter with late spark. Is this correct? I thought that late spark only reduces efficiency because the engine fires into the exhaust?
He also told me that I should set the spark advance lever even more downwards, to approx 8:00 position. Till now I followed what I read in my "The Model T Ford Car" book, Fig. 38, there the spark advance lever is shown at 10:00 position for an idling engine (not driving).

I will be very happy if you could give me advice how to proceed with setting the right spark advance, carburetor, ... I hope I can do a first test drive before winter is approaching, but I will feel better if I know what I have to do before I start.

Thanks in advance

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:31 pm

Late spark will cause the engine to heat up faster and could cause it to overheat, especially under load. It sounds as though your adjustments are corect or very close to it. If you filled the radiator full to the top, it would be normal for some water to escape the overflow tube due to expansion. A a water level at or just below the plate in the tank is normal. The engine has to get up to around 180 F before the water will circulate, and a running temperature from 180 F to around 200 F is normal. In a garage with no breeze, it would not be abnormal for the radiator tank to be hot half an hour after shutting the engine off. (The water circulation will stop when the system cools down to aroound 180F) Does your car have a fan? Idling for an extended time with no fan could lead to overheating.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:35 pm

"The Model T Ford Car" book, Fig. 38, there the spark advance lever is shown at 10:00 position.

If the book says that, it's wrong. Your friend is right. 8:00, or maybe more depending on the car, is good.

Check your ignition timing with this: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

Try setting your carburetor halfway between low stumble and high stumble.

If the car still runs hot, the old radiator may be due for a recore. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG96.html

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:41 pm

Question: What type of timer is in use?

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:45 pm

On my first parade back in the 1970s my Model T started boiling really bad because I had the spark lever to the full retarded spot. I figured since I was just idling during the parade advancing the spark was not necessary and it taught me a lesson. Idol with a spark lever down a bit and also check your carburetor to make sure it is not running too lean.

If those things do not work the radiator needs attention.

P.S.- The measurements in the books for the timer are only applicable for original Ford roller timers as far as I know.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:03 pm

Thanks for your kindly answers.

This is the book I mentioned, and the pictures for lever settings.

: This is one of my books about Model T

: The mentioned Figure with lever settings

No idea why the picture is rotated here...

: Another picture from other side

About timer:
I made two pictures of motor front side (with and without flash light).

: Front side of engine w/o flash

: Front side of engine with flash

The timer is a bit conical and held towards the engine by a metal finger.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:12 pm

The lever positions shown are a general guide and can vary quite a bit from car to car. The positions shown are for a new car with a Ford type timer. Various aftermarket timers and reproduction Ford-type timers will vary somewhat. Timer linkage adjustment and wear will also affect the lever position. The same is true of the throttle lever position and the carburetor adjustment.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:17 pm

I added another picture of timer, taken from left side.

See above, added there.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:22 pm

I now have an E Timer, so I no longer mess with the spark advance after the Initial Start sequence..

When I was driving before the E-Timer, I drove by 'Feel and Ear'.. I would drive with the spark advances as much as I felt the engine was comfortable with.. I would play with the Spark and the Throttle, and listen to the engine.. Makes it rather busy behind the wheel.. Run out of hands and fingers.. It would tell me if it's happy or not, by the way it sounded..

I don't have 'Positions' I would run the Spark lever in.. It was all by Seat of Pants..

Cap

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:22 pm

That looks like a Ford or Ford-style timer, so the adjustment procedure given in the book ought to be correct. But lever positions will vary somewhat from car to car for reasons of wear, adjustment, etc.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:26 pm

TXGOAT2,

thanks so much. My entire knowledge about Lizzy I got from my books. But this is only one half.

What I am definitely missing is practice, and I do not want to damage my Lizzy by doing something wrong or stupid as this can very quickly lead into expensive repairs.
If I would have somebody on my side, telling me immediately what I am doing wrong by watching me, this would be a safe and easy task, but I am more or less learning this detailed things by trial and error without such help. - This is for sure the hard way.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:31 pm

Re: "I stopped the engine, but I did not hear any boiling sound." I don't think your engine was overheated, or you would have heard and seen evidence of boiling. The movement of the radiator tank may have been due to engine vibration or to air bubbles escaping from the cooling system. Your radiator, if it's an original one, is probably not working at full capacity, but it may be adequate for everyday use in a cool climate. The best test of that would be driving the car and watching carefully for signs of overheating or coolant loss. Also: Does your car have a thermostat installed?

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:35 pm

Driving the car in mild weather away from traffic is the best way to learn. I would carry a few tools and a couple of jugs of water along. With the car running on the road, if you can avoid traffic, you can get a feel for what effect the levers and carburetor adjustment have on the way the engine runs, and you can begin to explore the way the car responds to the steering and brakes and transmission controls. It would be very beneficial to have an experienced T driver along, but it's not absolutely necessary.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:37 pm

No, my car has no water pump and no thermostat,

About climate... I am in Austria, close to Vienna.
In hot summer we have 36°C, average summer temp is around 26-30°C and my region is mostly flat.

Post by **John kuehn** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:38 pm

Is the radiator the original radiator that came with the car? Do you know any history of it?
As far as the settings for spark and gas each T is slightly different. They aren’t exactly the same. I have 3 T’s between 1919-25 and each one is a little different with start up and settings. They are close to the settings that are shown in the manuals but not quite.

Sooner or later the original radiators lose their cooling capabilities. They may look good but can fool you. I hope yours is still OK. Try running the car with the water showing just a little over the tubes. Some do that to keep from loosing water if it’s an old radiator. After checking all else the radiator is usually the issue.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:32 pm

John,

the radiator is an original style one. It has five rows of round tubes behind each other.
The radiator is in very good shape, all ribs are clean, straight, almost clean.

I have absolutely no knowledge about the past of this car. Years ago it was imported to Germany by a person doing that commercially. I bought it from a different person in Munich and brought it to Austria. According to the serial number, this is a real 1916 one, made in USA. The authorized expert (needed for getting a certificate of conformity) stated that this car is >90% original and in good condition.

What I could find out by myself:
The engine was definitely overhauled. Most of the work (except clutch) was done well, as follows.

The 4th bearing is now a ball bearing, but the universal joint shaft (with square hole) was a little bit too thick and was grinded thinner by hands (so it looks). I needed lots of sealing paste to seal it into the ball bearing. But it is perfectly centered, as well as the bearing into oil pan and hogs head.
Bands got new cotton linings
Planetary gears are running quiet, no loud noise as often heard in youtube movies
Paintwork is almost perfect
Manifolds are in good condition, as well as muffler
A circuit breaker switch was added between battery and rest of car
AC-Brakes were installed (smaller than Rockies with big drums)
The steel clutch was replaced by a Jack Rabbit one. Luckily this never worked (1/2" free play between clutch finger tips and clutch press ring), because I found out that this worker started with an inner ring inside the break drum (would grind off the drum over time) and there were some old steel disks missing as shims. But the drum was as good as new. So this clutch was absolutely new and unused.
A strange mixture of European and USA electric light wiring was added. The direction light switch was mounted on the steering column. It did hurt my eyes, it was chrome and absolutely ugly, no fuses in the car, the battery cables lost their insulation when bent, but a battery main switch was added.

So the car needed some more rework, I didn't expect that this was coming so soon...

I installed new cabling, a self made little brass dashboard below the left windshield corner, with turning knobs for light and direction lights, also with a little display for speed and battery voltage, replaced the clutch by a new steel clutch,repaired the fan (worn out needle bearing in hub and hub was broken internally), replaced bad sediment bulb by a new brass one, painted the exhaust manifold and exhaust in black, installed little LEDs in front oil lights for direction lights (orange) and border light (white), also in rear lights red low, red bright (brakes), orange. I also mounted a little fusebox under the hood (above steering column) and hided most not original cables as well as possible.

Now the car is ready for use and looks more original than before (except this little dashboard and required new cabling). But I think it is better to see one not matching part in the car than finding massive changes everywhere.

I finished all that last week.

Hope now comes the fun...

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:43 pm

Rainer, Just because a radiator looks clean on the inside does not necessarily mean it cools efficiently. Over many years and many heat/cool cycles and vibration microscopic cracks develop between the tubes and fins and heat is no longer transferred properly.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:44 pm

Rainer

pretty much any T is going to run hot just sitting and idling for a length of time. Once started, advance the timing lever from all the way "up" where it is started, down to a point where the engine is running the fastest and then no further (you may even have to slow the engine down with the throttle - the lever position may well be at 8:00 now). This is where it should idle if you're going to be stationery for awhile.

I believe that the book you have mentions "10:00" to minimize fuel consumption (keeping the engine running slow). At this point in the cars life, and your life, you really needn't worry about fuel consumption while idling.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:47 pm

I assume the book is by Murray Fahnestock, as the same lever chart appears in The Model T Ford Owner. I believe it applies to driving on BAT. When driving on MAG the timing doesn't have that many positions. The first image on the chart definitely applies only to starting on BAT.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:07 am

In the preface of this book I found the name

VICTOR W PAGÉ
October 1916

I also have the book you mentioned, the "Ford Manual for Owners and Operators of Ford Cars and Trucks" and the "Ford Service manual", a wire-ring bound copy in German language, it is THE workshop bible for me. This books helped me a lot.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:20 am

Just a question:
Is there a sane way to get out the calcium debris from cooling system? I think of a chemical method.

Using some sort of "citric acid" should solve such debris. But I am very scared of doing so, a radiator is really expensive..

Brass, tin, iron, possibly also copper at cylinder head gasket, this mixture of metals is for sure very sensitive on acid if concentration is too high or this acid is in contact too long.
Not that I will start to clean the cooling system regularly, I see this as last option.

If somebody has experience in that and knows a sane way, I will appreciate to share this knowledge.

Post by **speedytinc** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:54 am

rainer wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:20 am
Just a question:
Is there a sane way to get out the calcium debris from cooling system? I think of a chemical method.

Using some sort of "citric acid" should solve such debris. But I am very scared of doing so, a radiator is really expensive..

Brass, tin, iron, possibly also copper at cylinder head gasket, this mixture of metals is for sure very sensitive on acid if concentration is too high or this acid is in contact too long.
Not that I will start to clean the cooling system regularly, I see this as last option.

If somebody has experience in that and knows a sane way, I will appreciate to share this knowledge.

Coke a cola. contains phosphoric acid. start off easy with 1/2 liter. Drive a day. drain some out. look in the tank. Repeat till clean.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:24 am

And after you have a clean radiator which may well leak like a sieve after all the pin-holes open up, what then?

Honestly, you have not convinced me that your radiator in it's present condition is inadequate. As I said previously, idling with a retarded spark for any length of time will make a T run HOT HOT HOT. Until you take your car for a drive, you will not really know the condition of the radiator.

Post by **John kuehn** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:50 pm

Yes I think you need to run your T an extended period of time and let it stay hot. I thought about that after reading some more of the posts. Maybe the engine hasn’t really been broken in if it was rebuilt.
And IF you’re engine hasn’t been rebuilt for many years it could be that the water passages are restricted some. That will happen over a long period of time with a car that has set up. You mentioned you could see calcium deposits when you removed the radiator. There is rust inside besides the calcium deposits.

I would get your car running and drive it hot. If you have the spark in the right position for your engine and the overheating continues then drain the system, remove the head and clean out all the passageways in the head and block. After that drive it some more with a warm, hot engine. If you are still having trouble with it getting to hot it probably is the radiator.

A head gasket is a lot cheaper and cleaning out the head and block water passageways isn’t hard and a LOT cheaper than buying another radiator or having yours recored.

Post by **TWrenn** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:57 pm

Get a flat tube radiator and be done with it. You won't regret it. Plus think how gorgeous your car will look with that shiny new brass!

Post by **DHort** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:55 pm

$1500 for a brass radiator here,

probably $2500 for one to Austria

I would try to do everything I could to keep the old one working, too.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:29 pm

$1500 for a brass radiator here,

probably $2500 for one to Austria

The main reason I had my 1915 radiator recored was to keep the original look. The second reason is that it saved several hundred dollars. The car is for go, not show, so I got flat tubes.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:05 am

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:24 am
And after you have a clean radiator which may well leak like a sieve after all the pin-holes open up, what then?

Honestly, you have not convinced me that your radiator in it's present condition is inadequate. As I said previously, idling with a retarded spark for any length of time will make a T run HOT HOT HOT. Until you take your car for a drive, you will not really know the condition of the radiator.

Hello.
I will drive the car this Saturday if it does not rain. I am really happy that I was pointed to having the spark retarded too much. As I said, I never drove the car in high gear before, because of the faulty clutch.

I will put on my motometer to be able to watch the temperature and drive slowly in high gear (hope the brand new steel clutch will not cause me troubles). I will also take lots of water with me - only for the case ... We currently have temperatures between 10-13°C when sun is shining, so the radiator will for sure work more efficient than in hot summer.

How do I find the right point of spark advance? I will drive on magneto. I think I start with lever-tip at 8:00 position. Is this a good start?

DickC · Post by **DickC** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:10 am

While the focus of these comments has been the radiator, some attention should be given to the block. It has been my experience that some water passages can become blocked and restrict internal flow. I have disconnected the radiator input and output and attached a garden hose tor the inlet side and then to the outlet side. In several instances the result was a considerable amount of rusty sludge came out. (I even had acorns come out from a barn find T that still had everything connected. How the acorns got there is a mystery.) Just my 2 cents.

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:44 am

Rainer, Generally you can find the sweet spot for the spark advance by the sound of the motor. You advance the lever until the motor reaches its highest rpm at whatever speed you are running and the motor smoothes out.
The only times you retard the spark is starting the engine, climbing steep hills or if the engine is under a big load. It’s mostly by feel and engine sound. At least this is how it works for me. Other opinions will follow!

Post by **DHort** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:18 pm

Rainer. That sounds good. I usually drive with my spark lever between 7-8. Just remember to put it all the way up when you turn it off. Spark up and throttle up........Gute Reise.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:30 am

Thank you very much! I am so excited -- tomorrow I will (hopefully) have my first drive without difficulties (so I hope) after owning my Lizzy meanwhile 2 years.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:56 am

Hello, here is the promised result of my first test drive.

The weather was a bit cold (5°C/41°F), but it was dry. So I decided to do a first test drive of my Lizzy to find out if my repair of High Speed Clutch was successful, and if she will (still) run hot. The trip was approx. 16km / 10 miles long, first half slightly downhill, first part a little bit steeper, so on return therefore uphill.
Starting the engine was a little bit harder, but after one minute the engine was running. I should have opened the carburetor needle a bit more, but I forgot. I let it idling for 1-2 minutes, then I started the trip.So the engine was still very cold when I started off.

Here you can see me (and my friend) with my '16 Lizzy.

http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/Abfahrt ... tfahrt.mp4

My clutch repair was definitely successful. I hope it will not always engage so brutally. But there was no slipping at all. It is really surprising how fast this car drives even with idle rpm. (Till yesterday I had only a working first gear because the former owner forgot to add some used clutch disks to the new Jack Rabbit, so the clutch was never closing. Now I have installed steel clutch disks again, I keep the Jack Rabbit in my workshop.)

So I focused on driving and watching the motometer.
I didn't really expect that it will run hot at this temperature, but I wanted to see how it evolves at all.
Downhill - as expected - I was driving and the engine was running relatively cold. After 6km I could see the red color reaching a little bit into the motometer and reached the lowest mark after 8km / 5 miles.
On return the temperature was rising and the thermometer reached the low border of the hole. Here I was driving with approx 3/4 of throttle open.
The last part was a bit steeper. I had to fully open the throttle and slightly retarded the spark because the engine appeared a bit weaker (this was coming and going), so I opened the carburetor needle a bit more. The engine temperature climbed to the center of the motometer hole.
About the angle of the steeper street: A 50 cm³ motorcycle is also close to its limits on this street (at least when I am driving it

)

Is this ok for my Lizzy, or does this sound like the engine is a bit weak? I have no experience and therefore cannot compare.

Is the temperature normal, or does it appear a bit too high for this outside temperature? How much hotter will the engine be at summer temperatures? If it differs only a little, it is ok. But if it is much higher ...

Post by **John kuehn** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:51 am

Glad your out driving your Model T. One thing to remember about Model T’s is that it’s a car with 100 year old technology. Your T is around 20 HP so you have to remember it has its limits in power when going up steep hills. Your driving habits can help with that and the more you drive it you know what it can and can not do.

John Codman · Post by **John Codman** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:57 am

Starting your T with the spark lever in the 8:00 position is too much advance (assuming that everything is adjusted properly). Many if not most members of this forum will tell you that the spark lever should be in the fully retarded (about 10:00) position for starting. My T likes about three notches of "advance" for starting. I put advance in quotes because at that position the spark is still retarded, just not as much. Once the engine is started, move the spark lever downward until you reach the maximum engine RPM. With my T I have to adjust the mixture several times until the engine reaches it's operating temperature, then I can forget about it for the rest of the trip. Note: I live in Florida and there are no steep hills within
150 KM of where I live. In my case, once the spark advance is adjusted for maximum RPM after I have reached the point where the engine is fully warmed up and the mixture has reached it's final setting, I can forget about the spark too. I do go along with those who say that if your T is running too hot, at some point you will be looking for a new or recored radiator, but you mentioned that the red fluid just reaches the bottom of the round opening in your Motometer. That doesn't seem excessive to me. If it's not pushing coolant out of the radiator, I would just drive it and enjoy it!

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:44 pm

A Model T with a good radiator will run about the same temperature winter or summer. This is because the water does not begin to circulate at any significant rate until the coolant in the engine block and head reaches about 180F. This makes the system self-regulating to a great degree. Model Ts will typically run from around 190 F to about 200 F in warm to hot weather and 180 to 190 or more in cool weather. When using plain water as a coolant, minor ocasional boiling in warm to hot weather under some conditions is not unusual. Using a modern anti-freeze will usually prevent this.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:08 am

John Codman wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:57 am
Starting your T with the spark lever in the 8:00 position is too much advance (assuming that everything is adjusted properly). Many if not most members of this forum will tell you that the spark lever should be in the fully retarded (about 10:00) position for starting. My T likes about three notches of "advance" for starting.

You mis-understood.
I am starting the T always with fully retarded spark (lever is completely UP). I don't want to break my arm or damage my starter by kickback.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:26 am

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:44 pm
A Model T with a good radiator will run about the same temperature winter or summer. This is because the water does not begin to circulate at any significant rate until the coolant in the engine block and head reaches about 180F. This makes the system self-regulating to a great degree. Model Ts will typically run from around 190 F to about 200 F in warm to hot weather and 180 to 190 or more in cool weather. When using plain water as a coolant, minor occasional boiling in warm to hot weather under some conditions is not unusual. Using a modern anti-freeze will usually prevent this.

Hello, TXGOAT2.

This is really good news, I was hoping to get this answer. So my radiator is working and I do not have to worry too much at all.

Next steps:
So I will weld four support frames to lift both axles just enough to get the wheels 1" above garage floor. This will protect the rubber. And I will reduce the tire pressure afterwards, too. Then my Lizzy is ready for winter-sleep.

I will also finish the electronic speedometer. I will drill a little hole in one wooden spoke and glue in a very strong magnet. So the magnet will be invisible and no humidity can get into the wood. The magnetic sensor will be hidden by the AC brake. This I will do on left-rear wheel, there this additional cable can be hidden well along the stabilizer coming from Universal Joint. -- This is a perfect winter job.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:41 am

Today was a sunny day with mild temperature (around +10°C CELSIUS). Because the first drive was successful at +5°C, I did another drive, now with my wife.

W.o.n.d.e.r.f.u.l

My Lizzy ran cooler than at first drive. I start to get a better feeling in how do drive.

So I think my initial problems with running hot came primarily from running the engine with too little spark advance and too rich gas mixture. Everything fine now.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:17 am

Rainer

that is fabulous news!

good for you for persevering through your early learning issues. It is not an easy thing to teach yourself how to drive a T with no real guidance.

Happy Motoring

Post by **Jeff5015** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:51 pm

rainer wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:26 am
I will also finish the electronic speedometer. I will drill a little hole in one wooden spoke...

Do you have a cellphone? For about $2 you can download a GPS speedometer. The one I use is by Cool-Niks. It not only shows your CURRENT speed , it also shows AVERAGE speed ,total DISTANCE, MAXIMUM speed and TRIP time.

Jeff

ewdysar · Post by **ewdysar** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:49 pm

Jeff5015 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:51 pm

rainer wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:26 am
I will also finish the electronic speedometer. I will drill a little hole in one wooden spoke...
Do you have a cellphone? For about $2 you can download a GPS speedometer. The one I use is by Cool-Niks. It not only shows your CURRENT speed , it also shows AVERAGE speed ,total DISTANCE, MAXIMUM speed and TRIP time.

Jeff

From one of Rainer’s other posts:

Because my Lizzy has no speedometer (and I don't want to add one because they display in mph which is quite useless in Europe) but I must have a speed measurement/display (by law), I will drill a little blind hole into one spoke of left-rear wheel from transmission/rear side, diameter 1/4" by depth 3/4", a little bit outside of my AC brake diameter. Then I will glue in a strong neodymium magnet stick with black colored Epoxy. So it will be invisible and the spoke cannot get humidity inside. This magnet will be used by my tachometer. I will do this at a rear wheel because there I can hide the cable much better than at front.

I don’t believe that a cell phone app will meet his local safety standards for an installed speed measurement/display. Additionally, I found that with the inconsistent coverage where I normally drive my T, that my cell phone app was not very accurate for distance beyond a simple trip odometer perspective and I would often get numbers that were obviously wrong. For me, my dead-reckoning mileage is more useful for tracking required maintenance.

Keep crankin’
Eric

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:34 am

I don’t believe that a cell phone app will meet his local safety standards for an installed speed measurement/display. Additionally, I found that with the inconsistent coverage where I normally drive my T, that my cell phone app was not very accurate for distance beyond a simple trip odometer perspective and I would often get numbers that were obviously wrong. For me, my dead-reckoning mileage is more useful for tracking required maintenance.

Keep crankin’
Eric

Well, using a GPS App would possibly be sufficient, but I would have to mount the phone with a sucker on the windshield. Also, such apps usually drain the phone battery relatively quickly. I tried that as a temporary solution, it makes no fun.
Therefore I prefer an installed speed measurement, it is always ready to use.

The way I integrated it needs almost no space and has several additional features.

It shows speed when driving.
It shows battery voltage (no generator in this car, so it is important) even while driving when voltage becomes low. When voltage becomes critically low, an alert sounds.
When not in move, voltage, tank fill and other details are alternating displayed
For testing, I also integrated a gas display (calculated percentage tank fill). It is based on driven kilometers. Of course, this will only work when my Lizzy has relatively constant consumption (liters per kilometer). This helps to estimate when to start searching a gas station.
On hidden button press it also shows total driven kilometers, trip/day kilometers (ODO meter), kilometers since last maintenance, kilometers since last gas fill. Especially kilometers since last maintenance I find very handsome.

Little remark: If it works well and somebody is interested in, I can offer it, and converting it to imperial units is also possible.

Post by **DHort** » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:57 pm

I find it easier to just fill the tank after driving 3 hours or so. I also keep a couple gallons in a can on the running board. Just fill the tank befoe you start, fill after lunch, and fill when you get home.

rainer · Post by **rainer** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:48 am

Of course, this will also work.

But you know, the microcontroller behind the display has nothing to do then...

As I said, I am not sure if I will leave this function in.Gas consumption will not be stable enough, I guess.