Old School with Sioux

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:56 am

Sometimes old is better in my opinion as the quality in hardness, interchangeability, and self sharpening is unmatched. Been collecting parts for some years for my new up and coming interest...., hyper balanced engines. Everything starts from the inside out. Valve precision is a key factor with porting. Love to see an engine run with a glass of water on the top with no ripples! Watch a true Rolls Royce, Maybach, or M3 BMW, etc.. Pretty awesome!

IMG_6597.jpeg
IMG_6598.jpeg
IMG_6618.jpeg
IMG_6612.jpeg
IMG_6613.jpeg

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:00 am

Don't forget shaving and balancing a flywheel and if it has new super hard seats.., special cutters are needed to cut them out!

IMG_6629.jpeg
IMG_6610.jpeg
IMG_6630.jpeg


Dallas Landers
Posts: 2825
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 pm
First Name: Dallas
Last Name: Landers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Rpu, 23 TT, 24 coupe,
Location: N.E. Indiana

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:29 am

I have to get to dim dar hills and see your shop Hank.

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:57 am

First of all.., it’s a playhouse so get yer southern pronunciation down Pat first!

Got have a southern stamped passport! I will vouch for ya! Let dim know I said “Dah Huh” and he’s a good one!


Craig Raynor
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:28 am
First Name: Craig
Last Name: Raynor
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 touring
Location: Southampton NY
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Craig Raynor » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:26 am

Looks real nice Hank I am applying now for that passport and I hope it will be accepted at the door to your playhouse someday. :)


Don D
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:36 pm
First Name: Don
Last Name: Demio
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 T
Location: Tennessee

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Don D » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:51 am

Craig,

I spoke with Hank on the phone just yesterday and while we didn't discuss the elements of the "Southern Passport" appplication process I suspect it should include a test. One question could be, What did Tenna See? Feel free to post your best guess. :-)

Best of luck,

Dom


Dan Hatch
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Dan Hatch » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:55 am

You Yankees better be careful. From Hank’s place he can see you coming a long way off!
Dan


Dallas Landers
Posts: 2825
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 pm
First Name: Dallas
Last Name: Landers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Rpu, 23 TT, 24 coupe,
Location: N.E. Indiana

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:00 am

I will tie the coon tail to the antena on my truck . Should get me in.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:31 am

"What did Tenna See?" It saw members of my Grandmas' family leaving the hills and moving to Oregon and Washington! ;)
WOW, nice work on transforming that Sioux grinder!
I have the same Sioux valve grinder. Mine is still wearing about 95% of its original paint. Without going out to look, think it is a Catalog number 650. It had a new stone installed when I got it. Only problem is, the outer diameter is now too small to use the stem grinder. With the chuck installed, the stem holder can only go on one way, putting the Vs to the outside of the stone. The stem ends up with a nub on the end. While I don't think so, the stem holder that came with it, may be the wrong one. The stem grinder is missing the stem clamp/hold down. It also came with the stone dresser, the allan tool with knurled handle for adjusting the collars and one other piece that don't recall its use. Because this model is dry grind, takes a little more time to grind the valve and stems, allowing a cooling cycle.
Nice roller balancer! I would trade my knife-edge homemade one, any day of the week for one like that.
Last edited by Mark Gregush on Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup


jab35
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by jab35 » Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:23 am

Nice work on that Sioux, Hank.

Where can I obtain belt material or the actual belt that rotates the valve stem chuck? Mine has a round leather belt, hopelessly frayed and crumbling, that needs replacing for the unit to be functional. Thanks, jb

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:37 am

Beam equipment has stones and some parts. eBay is another source on occasions. You can use a small serpent belt and invert it for your stone arbor.., Dayco # 240K4.., or try 5040240. Lower belt from cross drive up to chuck, belt # 4L220, from motor to cross outside belt, # 3L300.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:47 am

Mine was replaced with a large reddish colored one, like an O ring. There are some parts on eBay. While in my post above I show the Catalog number, I think the correct number is 620 for parts. Model numbers changed, but some sundries remained the same for a long time.
https://beamequipment.store/machine-rep ... air-parts/
Henrys post above mine indicates that a small serpent belt can be used. That would give more options. Great and thanks.
Last edited by Mark Gregush on Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup


jab35
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by jab35 » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:07 am

Mark, Hank, thanks very much, jb


Bill Coyle
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:21 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Coyle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Roadster
Location: Port Clinton, OH

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Bill Coyle » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:52 pm

JB,
My Sioux's leather drive belt came apart like yours. Since it broke while I was in the middle of a project.... I found that a spare "carbon center" spark plug wire worked as a good replacement. Just used the original clip from the leather belt to fasten it together. It's still working with the temporary fix. Bill

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:38 pm

Yes, nothing like a temporary fix that is permanent! :lol:
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup


jab35
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by jab35 » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:10 am

Thanks, Bill. I know there's a round solid polymer belt material that should work like your wire, but last time I researched it, I couldn't just buy a short piece and I didn't have access to the splice welding device. I think that polymer belting and the original 'staple' would probably be ok in this application. Your plug wire fix gives encouragement! And does that belt have to be joined in place or can you easily dissemble the drive and install an endless belt without having to join the ends inside the the frame?

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:17 am

The V belt number 4L220 works in its place. Sioux went to this later, but used the same pulleys.

Hank
Last edited by Henry K. Lee on Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.


Harry Lillo
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:18 pm
First Name: Harry
Last Name: Lillo
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedsters, racers, depot hack, coupe
Location: Calgary

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Harry Lillo » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:17 am

Hank,
Maybe it is or isn't a T related item; could you tell us more about "Hyper Balanced" engines?
Harry

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:27 am

Well it is actually T related. Because a Model T was the first production automobile to have others make balanced items to make it smoother and more efficient. A hyper balanced engine is where all components are of equal value in weight, flow at ports, and in some cases intake runner length with exhaust with “chokes” installed. Any differentials are made up by individual spark plug gap, and or shimming the spark plugs. In some cases a counter shaft is used as a shock absorber so to say with hydraulic fluid to take up torque at various rpm’s. Sounds complicated but it is a procedure in perfecting the smoothness which in turn eliminates drag and cylinders fighting each other. By counter acting negative forces we increase fuel mileage. Just therapy for the brain!

There are presently modern engines in development not using a camshaft at all, but instead a solenoid system with pause and delay cycles. Formula 1 has a testing circuit at the moment. They are using capacitors, etc.This in turn normally will have the engine gain unGodly amount of power due to no drag caused by the valve train. I am going with mechanical options, called multipliers.

There is currently a Porsche in Germany, boxer 6 cylinder under wraps running a 100 mph at Nuremberg constantly getting 38 mpg. How? By keeping the throttle open, but changing the lift and duration of the valves electronically once the desired speed is reached.

Hank
Last edited by Henry K. Lee on Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:35 am

If an engine or any rotating assembly attached to it vibrates or flexes, the vibration is consuming some of the engine's power. Flexing in key parts, such as crankshafts, camshafts, pushrods, blocks, etc will distort clearances and affect things like valve timing and piston timing. Holistic blueprinting of every part of the engine assembley isn't easy or cheap, but it can give remarkable results. Rolls Royce used to attempt to hold everything to very tight specs.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:39 am

A camless engine could produce both very high horsepower and high torque from a small displacement. Intake and exhaust tract tuning, perhaps with variable intake tuning, can raise effective compression ratio and volumetric efficiency. Getting most of the vibration out of a T engine would probably free up 5 HP or more.


tdump
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT. T express pickup,speedster project.
Location: North Carolina

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by tdump » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:31 pm

I was given a valve grinding machine a couple weeks ago.It is red in color for what paint is left.it is not quite that rusted but every part is stuck. all the hardware WAS with it but got trashed before my neighbor could save it.
I need to go get the heavy turkey!
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Bill Coyle
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:21 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Coyle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Roadster
Location: Port Clinton, OH

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Bill Coyle » Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:22 pm

20220109_141311.jpg
JB, Mine has a cover that opens to allow access to the belt. I didn't try, but I'm sure you can install a standard belt. Bill


jab35
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by jab35 » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:59 pm

Bill: Thanks for the pic. jb


Dropacent
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Dropacent » Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:21 pm

I’m working on a hypo-balanced engine. Been trying to keep it secret but not about to let Hank get one-up on me. Here’s my equipment. I’m still searching for 4 iron pistons at least a pound different from each other.
8E3BB59D-220B-4E32-A40A-C68590E2070E.jpeg

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:45 am

Tim I am digging in my scrap pile and weighing just for you! What are your weights now?

LOL


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:57 am

Can you adapt Yugo parts to a T engine?

User avatar

Topic author
Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5474
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:49 am

Yes! Melt them down, add alloys for stronger material! Or…, YoU-Go-and get an-Other!!!!!


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:54 am

OK, melt one Ural motorcycle together with one Yugo and blend well, then fold in a few dozen Chinese rubber wrenches...


Dropacent
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Dropacent » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:22 am

When to see the before and after of what henry did to a good old American tool, why would anyone ever walk into a harbor fright store. Good on ya, Hank!


TXGOAT2
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:27 am

Many Harbor Freight hand tools are actually better quality than the more colorful and expensive PlaySkool tools! (Seriously, they do have some good stuff for the money)

User avatar

Mark Nunn
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Nunn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: Bennington, NE
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Old School with Sioux

Post by Mark Nunn » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm

Thread drift, for certain... I find high-quality and lower-priced wrenches and sockets at Tractor Supply. If a farmer breaks down during planting or harvesting, he can't afford to have cheap tools. If he does, he's out of business.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic