Running Without The Ford Mag

[ModelTWoods]

On my spare motor, I am thinking about using a distributor (which I already have) and eliminate the mag ring. I have never had, or run a T motor without magnets on the flywheel so my question is: should I go ahead and remove the magnets from the flywheel and install slingers to provide oiling, OR leave the magnets on the flywheel to provide the oiling. I know there is a weight savings using slingers, but is it really worth the effort to remove them, or just leave them in place. I am assuming that they would splash more oil than the slingers. I'm not building this engine for a speedster, but it will have a higher compression head. and higher lift touring cam.

[Tmooreheadf]

I use distributors all of the time. Use slingers instead of magnets. Slingers pump plenty of oil. I use mag post oil line with mag pin assembly removed. No issues so far with oiling.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I leave the magnets in there.

[ModelTWoods]

One vote for slingers; one vote for magnets. Keep the votes coming, please.

[JohnM]

Magnets or singers I think work just the same as far as slinging oil. But with less weight on your flywheel, it will jump from a standstill a little faster. I wish mine still had the magnets there.

[babychadwick]

Depends on the driving and car, the magnets will help by adding inertia to the motor where as removing will allow for easier stop and go driving.

[AZTerry]

Hello Terry,

I did a transmission last year with magnets and NO mag ring. After pulling the engine and then removing the transmission I found 3 broken magnets. Doing the ring test on the remaining magnets 8 more broke in my hand, for a total of 11 broken magnets out of one engine. All 16 are now in the scrap pile. It went back together with Texas T oil slingers.

also a,
Terry

[A Whiteman]

I have been running my truck for years with magnets in place. I actually use coils, but power these from battery as the coil plate is defunct.

[J1MGOLDEN]

I had to remove a friend's engine just to replace those slingers, after one broke loose for no apparent reason.

[Henry K. Lee]

I use nothing but distributors with 8 slingers slightly cut down on width. Some real oil moves!

Hank

[speedytinc]

Texas T slingers "had" a reputation for coming apart. Dont know about now, but wouldnt take a chance. I make 4 slingers from T6 90 degree x 3/4" x 1/8" extrusion, full magnet length on spools, Running them in 3 of my own & a dozen or so customers. No issues. Moves a lot of oil.

[Kaiser]

Hank, do you use bought slingers or build your own ?

[Tim Rogers]

Terry, keep in mind that it makes absolutely no difference how much oil is splashed by slingers because it doesn't change the capacity of the the oil funnel or a mag post oil line which is all controlled by gravity.

[OilyBill]

The big drawback that I see from running the magneto with the original Ford installation, is the risk of the flywheel and magnets "grenading" when something goes wrong. The pictures I have see on here when that occurs are really devastating, with holes punched in the transmission case, and major damage to the transmission.
I have a distributor on my 1914 runabout, and took the magnets off of it when I rebuilt the engine. At that time, I had no clue about how the Ford system even worked, and I wanted absolute reliability for long tours. I would not hesitate to drive it across the U.S.
I just finished work on a beautiful 1927 Coupe that was parked since it had magneto magnet retainers fail and come loose. It apparently affected the igntion system, but did not do any damage at all inside the transmission case. I found a couple retainers laying at the bottom of the flywheel housing when I took it apart, and sheared retainer screws. (By the way, I keep hearing these retainer screws are brass. THEY ARE NOT BRASS. THEY ARE BRONZE, which is twice or more as strong as a brass screw. If you want replacements, go to a marine supply store that sells BRONZE hardware, and get your screws there.) It had 32,000 miles showing on the clock, and I believe that was accurate. There was no rust on the car ANYWHERE. There was virtually no wear on any of the mechanical parts. It must have failed in the 1930's, and the owner didn't have (or want to spend) the $25 (or maybe even THIRTY DOLLARE!) it would have required to repair the car. So it was stored, to the delight of it's current owner, who I have been restoring the car for. The car was apparently gently used, and well taken care of when it was being driven. I would say it was one of the 5 best unrestored vehicles I have ever seen. When I showed the owner what I found after opening the transmission case, he decided on a distributor, and removal of the magnets and retainers.
Conversely, I am looking at a 1924 Runabout to buy now, and I probably will try and get the original Ford Magneto system operational and use it to drive this car. I would like to have one Model T that is as original as possible, and I want to experience the entire Model T experience when using that car.
You will just have to make a choice, based on how confident you are that your Ford Magneto system is THOROUGHLY and CAREFULLY rebuilt, with all parts checked. The Ford Magneto system works very nicely when CAREFULLY rebuilt.

[TXGOAT2]

Deleting magnets will reduce rotating mass, which will make the engine seem "peppier". It may reduce low speed torque. I would think deleting magnets would also reduce drag on the engine from the magnets churning in the oil, which might improve horsepower at higher engine speeds. Deleting magnets might increase the effects of torsional vibration on the engine and driveline under some operating conditions.

[Craig Leach]

I believe the Texas T slingers have been updated with a gusset to prevent the failure issue from the older style where they wear bent. I use broke steel or extruded aluminium and make my own spools. Someone told me they had a cast Ford spool crack when tightened down with a grade 8 bolt.

slinger.jpg (14.97 KiB) Viewed 5045 times

Craig.

[got10carz]

If you remove the field coil, make sure to install a bolt in the bottom 2 holes that retain it.

[ModelTWoods]

I use nothing but distributors with 8 slingers slightly cut down on width. Some real oil moves!

Hank

Hank, #1 do you make your own slingers, and #2 why do you cut them down on the width?

[Henry K. Lee]

Do not make my own anymore.., cut down the width to break down over loading unnecessary drag, add 8 total for better balance.

Hank

[TXGOAT2]

Anything running in oil can consume a lot of horsepower at higher engine speeds. You have something close to a torque converter. The fact that slingers have shown a tendency to break shows how much force is involved.

[TXGOAT2]

Using 8 slingers instead of 4 might reduce horspower loss at higher speeds by causing troughing effect, which would introduce slippage. With 8 slingers, liquid oil would only have 1/2 the time to flow in behind one slinger before the next one came by.

[Henry K. Lee]

Narrowing the vane will reduce torque and drag. I use an outside oil line as well.

Hank

[Rich Eagle]

I have no magnets or slingers in my Yellow Speedster. It has been driven several thousand miles since 1967 without any oil problems. Without the magnets it does have a bit quicker acceleration as mentioned but I have to idle it higher at stop lights or it will kill. My others all have magnets and I like them fine.
Rich

[Art M]

I would remove the magnets. This will reduce the weight and resulting gyroscopic moment, which I suspect causes many of the crankshaft failures that are though to be caused by 4th main misalignment. The failure mode of each is identical.

Art Mirtes

[TXGOAT2]

I have an engine with flywheels that weigh 1350 lbs each on a non-counterweighted crankshaft. The gyroscopic force at 200 RPM must be considerable, but it's a stationary engine. So far, the crankshaft has not broken. I believe that mis-alignment, torsional vibration, lugging, running loose bearings, and very long service cause most broken T crankshafts. A lighter flywheel would likely change the engine's natural vibration periods, whether for better or worse, I don't know, but I'd think it would tend to move the stronger vibration period(s) to a higher speed range. It might tend make the torque impulses hammer the transmission gears o/ U joint harder at some speeds/loads than otherwise.

[JohnH]

I believe the Texas T slingers have been updated with a gusset to prevent the failure issue from the older style where they wear bent.

That is correct. Mine have been in since 2010 without any problem. However, the supplied ring gear screws were not to my liking, so I used 6mm x 1mm screws which self lock into the ring gear.

[Norman Kling]

I suppose that if you are building or driving a speedster, it doesn't make any difference whether or not you use magnetos except that you will likely get a bit more speed without magnets. However, one of the unique features of a Model T is the magneto and coil ignition system. My T's are nearly stock. I do have some different engine blocks that the car originally, but all use the magneto system. A good thing about it is that when it starts missing, you can usually fix it by plugging in a spare coil. So I keep a few spare plugs, and coils and a spare timer with me wherever I go and have not had a problem for 30 years. Even able to lend spare parts to others who experience problems. And if the magneto quits can switch to battery.
If you run a distributor, be sure to keep spare parts with you, because there are many different makes and types, and if you break down, you might not find parts at the nearest O Reily or Auto Zone. And others might have spare parts to fit a different distributor.
Just Saying.
Norm

[Novice]

I have noticed a big difference between my 26 touring without a mag and My 26 open express with a mag. Touring revs up faster but I haft to keep the rpms up or it will die starting up. The open express with the mag will hardly stall and the engine doesn't race going from low to high gear if You forget to back off on the throttle when shifting. The express will chug along no problem where the touring will die at the drop of a hat. especially starting up or stopping. And with the distributor it dies and goes down for the count. does not recover like the mag car does. Glad it has a electric starter.
My 2 cents worth maybe less.

[Art M]

Pat,
There isn't any gyroscopic moment crankshaft koading with a stationary engine.

Art Mirtes

[ModelTWoods]

I'm leaning toward leaving the magnets on the flywheel and maybe staying with a timer and coils.

[TXGOAT2]

I read some Ford literature somewhere that indicated that the T engine used a lightweight flywheel which was compensated for by the mass of the magnets and related hardware. On most non-Ford auto engines, the flywheel would have had a clutch assembly attached to it, or in the case of early cars with a divorced transmission, the flywheel often had a heavy rim. Heavy flywheels are good for low speed torque and to smooth out power impulses. The Ford T engine also lacks crankshaft counterweights. All in all, its rotating mass is on the low side for a 4 cylinder engine. As for gyroscopic effects, the T engine is not stationary, but I don't think the car changes direction rapidly enough to overstress the crankshaft due to the rotating mass of the flywheel. Motorcycles like the Harley Davidson have substantial rotating mass in the engine, clutch, and wheels, and gyroscopic forces do not cause handling issues, even though the vehicle is much lighter than a T .

[Dan Hatch]

One more thing to consider. The magnets help to insure the TG pins do not back out of the flywheel if they should work loose. I always install a ring to prevent that from happening when I remove magnets. There is a shoulder on the magnet side of pins to stop them from working out towards the gears.
Note: some pins do not have these shoulders. I will not use them.
I have never had a pin work loose, but I have seen what happened when it did on someone else car.
Just info, you can make your own decision. Dan

[Corey Walker]

I think the ignition system is about the best thing about a Model T. I have now and have had several other older model cars with distributors. Ive got a 1947 Hudson now and when it gives me fits I always think that if it had a mag and 6 coils i could fix it.
The stock system is perfect for me. I don’t even have a battery in either of my T’s. I just crank and go. A distributor seems like a lot of extra parts that can result in leaving you stranded if one part fails. Not much can fail with the stock system, it can still run on 3 coils, lint on the mag post is an easy fix. What’s even worse is my ‘88 truck with electronic ignition, it has me wishing it was at least the Hudson ignition, but that’s a different story.