Odd engine number on a 1913

[Don ellis]

This is the engine number off the barn car I just picked up,. I have no idea about this one. Has anyone ever seen this before?

[Philip]

july 11 the number mark is odd

[Philip]

i wonder if someone replaced the 11 engine and re stamped it with the old number

[rickd]

Late June 1911 engine number; but a 1913 casting date? And I've never seen the "NO" prefix on an engine number. I think we are going to learn something new here.

[Don ellis]

The style of numbers is correct and there’s no sign that the original was ground off. This car just keeps giving challenges.

[JTT3]

I enlarged the picture & think I am seeing shadows of numbers between the more pronounced numbers.

[Steve Jelf]

Replacement block stamped with the number of the ruined one it replaced. It would have been stamped in some shop, not the factory, where the "NO" was added. That could have happened in some other car before it ended up in the present one.

[Philip]

what is odd to me is the car was only 2 years old in 13

[Dan Hatch]

Replacement block. I once picked up a engine with no number and a 1915 casting date. Everything else was earlier. Pan had one piece horseshoe, hogs head no enforce ribs. Then found 1912 date on transmission shaft. Replaced only two years into the life.

[Norman Kling]

Things can happen to the block. My grandfather took a trip across the United States and back in 1926. From the looks of the car in pictures it looks like about a 1924 or 1925. Somewhere along the way they broke the crankshaft and the Ford dealer replaced the engine overnight and they were on their way. So Some engines were ruined very early on and replaced shortly thereafter.
Norm

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

B75BBDE6-C9BE-4C54-AC14-CD365C625BCB.jpeg (85.78 KiB) Viewed 3167 times

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Is it just me, or does the "NO" really appear to be "NC"??? See the little "hook" in the 1 o'clock position of the C/O?

Capture.JPG (25.16 KiB) Viewed 3163 times

[Scott_Conger]

I don't understand the assumption that this was a new block that was changed out in 1913. As John pointed out there does appear to be some evidence of a previous (1913) number on the block.

Yes, it could have been changed out when the car was 2 years old (assuming the car is an '11, a leap of faith since it shares no similarities to similar bodied '11 Torpedos), or it could have been changed out any of the following 100 years (like when it got it's new frame??)

Given the July '11 serial number, if that engine sat for just a couple weeks, it would have been a model year '12 and that could account for the very unusual '12-ish body style.

[JTT3]

if I’m not mistaken the location and number pad for an 11 or 12 is different & at different locations even on the closed early engines. My 11 closed valve engine still has the number pad where the open valve number is on my 09. My 12 has a really thin pad above the outlet with a different set of numbers upside down above the pad that are cast in the block. On another 12 engine the pad is long & thin and to the side of the outlet. One thing for sure( beside the casting date) to see if the block is earlier than a 13 is to look at the 3rd main support web on the inside of the block if it’s just one support most likely earlier, if two supports 13 or newer. JMPO

[Don ellis]

The casting date is 7-2-13, that matches the running changes I see on the frame.

[Don ellis]

From what I see I don’t think it was ground off and re-stamped, you have to remove a lot of metal to get stampings out.

[Russ_Furstnow]

Note how the water inlet appears to be higher than the number boss. On all of my 1913 engines, the water inlet and the number boss are the same height, as if they were machined at the same height. My guess is this is a replacement block and the number is an original stamping, not a restamp. Just my thoughts. Russ Furstnow

[JTT3]

Russ that’s a good catch, leave it to a judge, ha

[DanTreace]

Is it just me, or does the "NO" really appear to be "NC"??? See the little "hook" in the 1 o'clock position of the C/O?

Capture.JPG

Jerry

To me, that is indeed a 'C' . Just a guess, but perhaps the mechanic who exchanged that later '13 block for the busted serial of an '11 made those letter notations along with the old serial number.

Could be NC for a North Carolina requirement needed the state attorney or could be NC for Number Change.

In any event, that is original '13 block, and serial pad was blank, as Russ pointed out, and then the odd letters and old serial added.

[Don ellis]

I thought it was NC at first glance myself, especially since it is in N.C. Maybe a state thing

[richc]

Interestingly, this 1913 block was for sale at Tulare this past weekend. Given that the casting date is one day after the block featured in this thread, it should be a valid example of what the Ford factory was producing at that time.

Rich C.

[JTT3]

Well Rich that picture pretty much confirms Russ’s thought about the numbers boss being cut down.

[Allan]

Just another item in the parts salad that makes up this car. A replacement later block? Just like the replacement early clamshell rear axle. There is more to this story.

Allan from down under.

[Original Smith]

I have a 13 block with no number at all. Can't give you the casting date now. I'm out of town.