Tennessee DMV problems with 1909 T

[Bob McDaniel]

As a lot of you may know by now we moved to Tennessee from Indiana so I have been transferring the titles of my cars which should be no big deal. I have had the 1909 Touring registered in Indiana in my name for years and have driven it on tour and to local car shows and just for fun many times. I transferred about 7 titles back in July of this year and all went well except for the 09 because the 4 digit Vin has been issued to a stolen 1940 Chevy possibly in another State. I was given a plate for the car and was told someone would call me and clear up the issues and I would get a title. Well today after 2 months of waiting a title showed up but now the Vin number is 11 digits and only the last 4 match my cars Vin. I have dealt with titles for years in Indiana and even this 09 had to pass a Vin inspection by the Indiana State Police because it was purchased out of state and the Vin had to match the title exactly before the officer could approve it. Now it would not pass because the numbers show 11 digits on the title and 4 digits on the car. They did not issue a new number or instruct me to change the Vin on the car, which I will not do on a 1909 Ford because that4 digit number is important to that car and is key to its 113 year history.

Does anyone in here have any experience with Tennessee DMV that can help me decide my next step to fix this problem? I could let it go but it may become a bigger problem 20 or 30 years down the road when I am too old to crank it or I pass away and the next guy is stuck with the mess. I am only a temporary caretaker and want to make sure that everything is right.

[Professor Fate]

Nashville state capital building
and bang on the doors of state reps. Calls/letters/visits.
I used this method for another issue with 100% success. Someone will help you.

[kmatt2]

I don’t know what Tennessee does with old VIN numbers but a original 1940 Chevrolet VIN number would be 10 or 11 places depending on assembly plant. I can only assume that the stolen 1940 Chevy had the 4 to 5 place body number as it’s VIN.
For your problem of wanting to preserve the original 4 number Ford VIN now that your new state of Tennessee has given your car a 11 place VIN I would check into doing this. You had a valid title in your old state in your name for your 1909 T , so get a replacement title from your old state for the lost original title. You could then keep that title with the Tennessee title adding a letter explaining things and keep it all together for the 1909’s next caretaker.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

You had a valid title in your old state in your name for your 1909 T , so get a replacement title from your old state for the lost original title. You could then keep that title with the Tennessee title adding a letter explaining things and keep it all together for the 1909’s next caretaker.

Funny thing, when I read this last night I thought of recommending the same thing if it were myself ...but then thought it would come across as unethical or immoral if I were to recommend it. Glad someone else thinks like me!!

[TXGOAT2]

I've had several account numbers and driver license number arbitrarily changed over the last couple of decades because, they say, computerized accounting systems will not accept the original account and driver license numbers issued years ago. An account number that was 123456 became 123456-XXX. Another one, 65432, became 000065432. The state added a 0 to my driver license number. I had some static when getting a safety inspection done on a 1972 F250 that I've owned for 23 years done because the handy dandy new computerized system would not accept the vehicle's original factory VIN. Not enough digits/characters. I'm lucky to live in a lightly-populated area where the inspector was willing and able to get on the phone to the zombiecrats in Austin and get it cleared up, somehow. As the bloated government and its meddlesome bureacratic armies grow, I expect these problems to become more common.

[Jim Eubanks]

A lot depends on who you are speaking with at the DMV. The last car I registered here was a 28 A with a four number vin and it went thru just fine.

[John.Zibell]

You should have moved to Alabama. Vehicles over 35 years old are not titled. https://legalbeagle.com/7328460-alabama ... -laws.html

[Erik Johnson]

VIN is a concept that didn't exist until the 1950s, wasn't formalized until the 1960s and wasn't adopted as a standardized 17 digit code by U.S. automakers until 1981.

Model T Fords never had VINs from the factory. They have serial numbers.

For modern registration and title purposes, serial numbers are utilized in lieu of a VIN for vehicles that were never assigned a VIN at the factory. Because manufacters determined their own serial numbers, multiple vehicles of differing makes, models and years can have identical serial numbers. That is too be expected.

It's unfortunate that your current department of motor vehicles registration system wasn't set up to accomodate the above. However, I don't think I would get too worked up about them assigning a VIN.

Here in Minnesota it isn't a problem if multiple vehicles across various makes, models and years share the same serial number.

[Mark Gregush]

While I understand that the 4-digit serial number is important to the car, why couldn't you attach one of those serial number tags to the top of the frame in the same place as the 26/27's was with the new number?

[tdump]

My dad has a 1970 Chevrolet pickup and the insurance company constantly messes with the vin because it "does not compute"
I would think anyone buying a 1909 Ford will understand the 4 digit is original and the 11 digit is Tennessee.,I wouldn't worry much about it.You did photo copy the original before you gave it to the state? Just keep the copy with the new 1.

[TRDxB2]

You do not have a problem. In fact your VIN will be the most accepted form in the future by any DMV. Every Model T owner knows the issues with VIN numbers so not to worry. Keep in mind that a Title is only a record of ownership. If you replace an engine in a car today it doesn't change the car VIN. So they retained your serial number and just prefixed it.
Model T engine numbers were never intended to be a unique ID for a the Model T, just the engine (as explained in the Model T encyclopedia), and never to be an all inclusive unique ID for every motor vehicle (that includes Farm Implement Vehicles as well). John Deere went through a VIN renumbering for its products. It used to be a simple 11 position ID beginning with a factory code, partial model, a single position configuration code and ended in a serial number) This was later replaced with the same 17 position VIN format.

I'd be interested in decoding the number that they assigned for you (don't want the serial number portion, engine number).
https://www.carvertical.com/ford-vin-decoder
https://www.autozone.com/diy/trustworth ... a-vin-mean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_i ... or_section

If someone did it for a Model T
The first 3 numbers for the WMI - World Manufacturing Country Code. In the notation below, assume that letters precede numbers and that zero is the last number. So something like 100 or 7F0.
1, 4, 5 or 7F-70 United States
2 Canada
If you got the first 3 positions as 1FA they did good - That interprets as Made in the US (1) and Ford Car (FA)

[J1MGOLDEN]

I had a similar problem and finally sent enough original Ford information to the head of the Department of Motor Vehicles who finally called me and said, "tell me what it is you really want and why!"

I told him I wanted the original engine number on my state Title and I got it, after paying the half price fee for a corrected title and this original Ford document closed my case.

Engine Number Stamp.jpg (48.49 KiB) Viewed 4498 times

[J1MGOLDEN]

Also acknowledged was the fact that two vehicles could have the same Title number, if the old engine could later be rebuilt with new tools that were invented, developed, and sold, if when rebuilt it was deemed reliable for operation.

[Bob McDaniel]

Good info so far and I am going to town now and see what progress if any can be made. The new title Vin is MOT1909XXXX which MOT also appears under model and of course 1909 as the year.it is possible maybe someone typed the info in the wrong place and it came out this way when it was printed. I will give it a try to correct it and update later what I find.

Thanks for your help so far.

[DanTreace]

Bob

Seems your title will be fine, just add a sticky note on the title, explaining the added characters!

Bet the TN DMV had to enter a 11 digit number into the computer field. So the typist just put in Model T 1909 XXXX.

[TRDxB2]

Good info so far and I am going to town now and see what progress if any can be made. The new title Vin is MOT1909XXXX which MOT also appears under model and of course 1909 as the year.it is possible maybe someone typed the info in the wrong place and it came out this way when it was printed. I will give it a try to correct it and update later what I find.

Thanks for your help so far.

Leave it alone, no question on what the prefix means! MOdelT19091234

[aDave]

Bob...as others have said...leave it alone !!!

You are na winner !! You must have the most unique VIN (Serial Number) in the Model T universe !!!!

CONGRATULATIONS !!!

[Russ T Fender]

In Florida I had to title my 1910 Chalmers-Detroit as an Allis Chalmers because the computer in Tallahassee would not accept Chalmers-Detroit. First they told me there was no such car which was puzzling as I had driven it to the DMV. Eventually they conceded that there was such a car but they still would not issue a title for it. Seems that when they computerized the system they entered all the makes of cars they could think of and if it wasn't entered it doesn't exist as far as they are concerned. After more than six months of arguing with the DMV at every level possible I finally gave up. They also wanted me to register my 1907 Autocar as a truck but that's another story!

[DanTreace]

Val

You should have driven over to Marion County (Ocala) as the County Tax Collector (they issue titles and plates) is George Albright, a well known antique auto collector. He would have made it right for sure!

Went to him to gain title for an aftermarket bodied T that needed the proper year of mfg. Super nice guy, personally handed me off to the long term clerk who knows her car stuff too!

[Russ T Fender]

Dan, if only I had known. I wonder if I could get a corrected title if I went to him? It's been a long time since I moved to Florida and titled my cars there but it still annoys me!

[DanTreace]

Val

You might call him, you can find his office number on line .

Well known, even leads annual charity car show each spring in Ocala.

B92DD1C6-D023-413A-93C4-38C89DDA047E.jpeg (38.51 KiB) Viewed 4302 times

[Bob McDaniel]

Update,

I made good progress today and am told that I will receive a corrected title in a few weeks. I also got my old Indiana title back that they still had in the back room. Now I can at least put the two titles together for any future owners so now I feel this should help down the road. If someone had not reported a 1940 Chevy stolen
with the same ID numbers as my 1909 Ford, I don't think I would have had any problems. They said that they are not able to see what state the other car was from in the system but it is clear to all of us that I don't have the Chevy. I know this will not change anything one way or the other but I would rather deal with it now than to have bigger issues when it may be harder to fix. I have other titles for rare antique trucks that I don't know if I want to risk getting transferred so if things don't work out I will know more before I decide what to do.

[Russ T Fender]

Dan I will do that as soon as I get back down to Florida. Thanks