High beam vs low beam headlights?

[Modeltmike]

I’m re wiring one of my cars and I’m at the point where it’s time to do the headlights. There is the “high” beam wire and low beam wire. These sockets are not “clocked” like a newer 1157 bulb with a high and low beam filament. How does the high / low beam work? Does it make a difference which terminal you put which wire? Thanks

[MichaelPawelek]

The filaments in the bulbs are placed horizontal one on top and one on the bottom. Their placement reflects light off the reflectors at a different angle thus creating light that shines higher or lower on the road. Depending on the bulb type the high beam is not necessarily brighter than the low beam it is just projected higher on the road.

[Moxie26]

Headlight switch for headlights is either put on dim or on at night . When you put your lights on if one light is stronger than the other on " on " position just remove and reconnect electrical connection and back of the headlight 180° and they will be equal strength. If you are replacing wiring color coded wires are indicated on wiring diagram and you could reference that.

[TRDxB2]

You do not need to use 1157 bulbs they use a different socket base BAY15D (offset pins) while the Model T double contact base is BA15D (aligned pins)
Noe the picture for the BA15D is showing optional wiring positions for ground. For our purposes the bottom two contacts for for the headlight filaments and the outer shell for ground. However the + - represents connecting bulbs in series like for for Magneto Bulbs

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The vendors sell a High low beam bulb basically is two circuits. When t he switch is on DIM it provides voltage to the 32cp filament, when switch to ON the connection to the Low filament is disconnected and the 50CP is used. An 1188 6v bulb will also work but the filaments aren't positioned perfectly

The vendor bulbs appear to have their filaments in the proper focal point position for headlight reflection. If you look into the reflector you may see a shiny center

[Bill Robinson]

Thr Tennessee T's website has a Tech Page article about focusing Model T headlights. Give it a try. Also, refer to the Handbook for more tips. https://tennesseets.weebly.com/uploads/ ... s_easy.pdf

[Novice]

You might want to consider LED drop in replacement bulbs. considerable brighter and just barely moves the amp meter. headlight socket pin orientation does not effect operation. I have a T with one headlight socket with OEM pins and the other after market with reversed pins. to make it correct with a OEM filament bulb would have had to replace socket or turn socket and drill additional hole in headlight housing. with led bulb doesn't matter. they make 6 and 12 volt versions. LEDLIGHT.COM 6V LED Headlight BA15D 60 SMD Dual Filament
Product Code: 87455 they have high and low beam output. bright & On
$8.27 - $8.99

ba15d-60-smdt.jpg (2.95 KiB) Viewed 7061 times

[Allan]

Those LED globes have forward oriented units and two rings to sebd light towards the reflector. Unless some of the leds are not lit up on low beam, the only way to have a low beam is to drive the leds with less power. This will refuce the light output, but will not result in any change of focus for the light. Result is the same beam with less light intensity, rather than dipped lights of different orientation of the beam.

Allan from down under.

[namdc3]

Keep in mind the T has Dim and On, or “standing” and “on.” This was achieved with different cp filaments. There are many variations of bulbs that try to modernize the system to a high/low.

[TXGOAT2]

Would adding a resistor to the low beam circuit allow for a "bright/dim" function with the LED bulbs?

[Original Smith]

There is not high beam and low beam on a Model T! The original bulbs were 21-3cp.

[Vic_alberta_Canada]

1920 Canadian Touring.

[TRDxB2]

There is not high beam and low beam on a Model T! The original bulbs were 21-3cp.

The light designations where DIM & BRIGHT on the ignition switch. Non-starters used a single filament bulb and connect a dimmer (rectifier) from the DIM position for what we would refer to as low beam and a different wiring path would be used for the BRIGHT position to the same filament (high beam). There were also duo-bulb reflectors (as shown above) where 2 bulbs were used. Wiring to the reflector used a BA15D socket with two contact points one for the DIM connection and the other for the BRIGHT connection. The bulbs them selves were fitted to BA15S, single contact sockets. These double bulb set-ups were used later on the Model A. Then there were two filament bulbs that where used in directly in headlight reflectors having BA15D sockets
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Encyclopedia
1915 -1917
All were electric, powered by the magneto with the headlamp bulbs wired in series.
The encyclopedia did not indicate any C.P. rating for bulbs prior to 1916
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1917-1919
In late 1917 a dimmer was added to the light switch on the magneto-powered lamps. The lamps appeared the same as the 1916 style except for the use of bulbs with two contacts (6-8 volt, 16 C.P.) instead of the older single contact type (8-9 volts, 18 C.P.).
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1919-1920
Same appearance as the 1918 lamps but now provided with sockets for two 6-8 volt lamps on those cars supplied with electrical equipment. The main bulb was 6-8 volt, 16 C.P. and the “dim” bulb located in the upper part of the reflector was 2-1/4 C.P. (the same bulb used in the tail light). Magneto lamps were dimmed with a resistor or inductance and were the same as the 1918 type.
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1921-1923
The 6511DX used a frosted “Tu-Lite” bulb with a clear lens. Early in 1921 the 6511DX clear lens was replaced with the 6511EX which had green “visor” and used a clear “Tu-Lite” bulb. The “Tu-Lite” bulb was 6-8 volt, 18 and 2-3/4 C.P. About June 1921 the 6511HX with the Ford “H” fluted lens became standard, and continued through 1925 in the passenger cars. The 6511KX used in non-starter cars used a double contact 6-8 volt, 21 C.P. bulb. The dimming inductance is mounted behind the area where the ammeter would have been.
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1923-1925
Headlamps same as 1923.
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1926
Variations in headlamp mounting in 1926. The first is on the left and the last is on the right.
6501AX and 6502AX (Right and Left) magneto type.
6501CX and 6502CX (Right and Left) battery type.
During 1926 production a bar was added between the front fenders, mainly to support the front license plate. Note that the headlamps are not mounted on it, and the variations in design of this bar.
The late 1926 and 1927 headlamps now mounted on the fender tie bar. Right and left designs were no longer needed.
6511NX magneto type, bar mount.
6511MX battery type, bar mount.
The 6501/6502 types were similar in shape to the 1925, but now mounted on posts that in turn mounted on the fender. The right and left lamps differed mainly in the positioning of the lens, and could be interchanged. Later 1926 production lamps (6511 M, N) were mounted on the fender to fender tie rod. Standard lamps were all black but nickel-plated rims were optional. Nickel became standard during the year.
SIDE LAMPS Oil lamps an option on non-starter cars in early 1926 only (those built in 1925) and were the same as the earlier lamps.
TAIL LAMPS Same as the 1925 styles. A stop light combination became an option by March 1926. Oil tail lamp used only on non-starter cars and was the same as the 1925 type.

[Allan]

Dim and bright do not equate to high and low beam. Dim lights are bright lights reduced in intensity by a resistor or some such device. A lower engine speed on magneto driven lights does just this by reducing power to the lights.

High and low beams are achieved by powering different filaments in dual filament bulbs. They may,' or may not, be rated the same output. By changing the position of the filaments, the light impinges on the reflector from different positions, resulting in the beam being reflected differently. This is the dipping effect for low beam.

A previous post reported that the led bulbs used negated the need for connecting the sockets in a particular orientation. This is because the leds cannot be focused because there are multiple light sources.. It takes the pinpoint single source of a filament to be able to focus the beam, either high or low. Multiple filament globes need to be fitted with like filaments in the same orientation within the headlight, so that the light is reflected in the same way from each light. In other cars this is self corrected with staggered pins, but on a T with its parallel pins, you have to install them correctly. Swapping the thimble 180 degrees at the back of the light will not orientate the filaments correctly. Even bulbs with filaments with the same rating will not function as high or low beams if the bulbs are not oriented in the same way within the light body.

Being electrical, I could be way wrong, again!

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

Allan, I agree to everything you have stated above. My references to the DIM & BRIGHT positions on the ignition switch to the terms Low & High beam was only to help others relate to light intensity but not the result of focusing the light in the road ahead . Your point on inserting a two filament bulb in the correct orientation may be overlooked by many. There are many points of discussion related to the use of LED bulbs and the electrical system in general. The driving argument is brighter lights and lower wattage requirements.
Very Low Wattage - This absolutely true but is it necessary. I believe that that there is a lack of understanding on the Model T charging system.
For example:
The use of a Voltage regulator will not provide more voltage than a Cut-Out. The amount of current (amps) output from a generator is regulated by the 3rd brush, so neither the VR or cut-out manages it. The VR intended purpose is to limit the voltage from the generator to prevent the battery from being overcharged. It provides the same function of a cut-out by protecting the generator from running like a motor when the engine is shut off.
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Ammeter readings - Fact a battery with just a cut-out can be damaged more by a constant positive ammeter reading than by a negative one. Overcharging a battery can cause more damage than draining it. This not to say that a constant negative ammeter reading is good either but it is less likely to cause damage. Manual regulating the ammeter reading by turning on the headlights during the day time for safety and to prevent overcharging is a good idea. Its best to visualize an electric golf cart - its batteries are not charged while driving, yet it gets you a round.
Lead-Acid Batteries - As a result of too high a charge voltage excessive current will flow into the battery, after the battery has reached full charge. This will cause decomposition of the water in the electrolyte and premature aging. At high rates of overcharge a battery will progressively heat up. As it gets hotter it will accept more current, heating up even further. This is called thermal runaway and it can destroy a battery in as little as a few hours
Optima Batteries - Overcharging can cause the safety valves to open and battery gasses to escape, resulting in premature failure. These gasses are flammable! You cannot replace water in sealed batteries that have been overcharged. Any battery that becomes very hot or makes a hissing sound while recharging should be disconnected immediately
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Headlight "Brightness" should be measured by what portions of the road are illuminated and not by the C.P. or Lumen specification of a bulb. The Model T reflector has a narrow focal point where the light source needs to be for it to be reflected properly. Looking at a bright headlight lens doesn't mean that the light is focused, just that its dispersed on the headlight lens. Most all LED and some Filament bulbs have most of their points of light outside of that focal point.
So here is a bulb and the screw is used to get the tips of the two filaments into the focal point location. Anything outside that will project unfocused light.

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The clear area at the base of the reflector is where the focal point is

[fishndale]

I replaced my 6 volt bulbs with LED's in my TT. They are a lot brighter. These have high and low beam, basically the bulb has an internal 50 ohm resistor on one pin to dim the LED's. Unfortunately the 6 Volt LED bulbs that I used don't have much difference between high and low. The resistor needs to be bigger, at the expense of a dimmer 'dim' setting.
I was able to focus them. Looking at the reflector without the glass lens, There's a position where most of the reflector is lit up. That turned out to be quite a bit forward (toward the front of vehicle) than the dual filament 6 Volt bulb.
The current went from 3 amps to 0.150 amps (150 mA) and they stay cool.
They run off the battery (not the mag) so the voltage is pretty well regulated.
I did have trouble with the bulb ground. The socket ground relies on a clean contact through the adjustment screw. Rusty sockets were intermittent. Not original, but I soldered a small flexible wire from the socket to ground. Solved my problem.
There are a lot of styles for 6 Volt LED bulbs. Wish I had the time and money to try them all.
Attached are the second pair I tried.
I doubt I'll be driving at night, but the headlights work.
Just wanted to share my experience.
Now to figure out what tail lights are best for a 1922 Model TT stakebed. Most of the wood was rotted and gone so I'm using my artistic license. ha

[Craig Leach]

Hi Mike,
You can switch the wires or turn the bulbs so they match the switch position.

Do 6 volt LED's put out enough light that they blind oncoming traffic?
Craig.

[TRDxB2]

The amount of light output is measured in lumens, but that doesn't mean that one bulb will provide more down the road brightness. The issue with LED bulbs is that the orientation of the chips that emit light when they are scattered around the bulb. Forward facing chips are not reflected, but illuminate the lens making the headlight look brighter and are still aimed by the lens (good). The chips that are the most productive need to be near the reflectors focal point. It is the lens that distributes and projects the light down onto the road ahead. These assume properly reflected rays.
So with the lens off you would want to adjust the area inside and close to the red ring to be the brightest - anything outside the pink ring isn't going to do much other than to make the lens glass look brighter.

[Steve Jelf]

For those wanting to run magneto lights and looking for bulbs, you want the BA15D base shown in the illustration Frank posted. Actual magneto bulbs are marked 9v. Those are rather scarce compared to 6-8v bulbs, which are much more plentiful. Some 6-8v bulbs will do if they are identical in pairs. As mag lights are wired in series, if two bulbs are not identical one will be bright and the other dim. In some cases one will be VERY bright and the other so "dim" that it doesn't light at all. I test them with 12 volts in series and put them in matched pairs in little plastic bags, and several bagged pairs in a cigar box in the car. The box also contains a candle to lubricate the bulb bases and headlamp rims.

[Tom Donnelly]

The LED's that Jim notes below were well worth the $29 including freight! On my ’21 Touring, I discovered that in order to get the LEDLIGHT.COM bulbs (Product Code 68523) to function, it was necessary to run a ground wire to one of the two input connections on the lamp terminal (see photo). I chose the ON input wire (switch position) for the positive supply, and connected the ground to the DIM connection point. The arrangement of the LED’s on the side help the reflectors project a lot of light!

[TXGOAT2]

Holley is offering an LED replacement for assorted older model sealed beam units. "Holley Retrobright". None of the units is a drop in fit for a Model T, but the 7" round types could probably be adapted to Model T buckets.

[Allan]

Tom, presumably your photos show bright and dim for your lights, and the dim is achieved by driving the leds at a lower power. There can be no high/low beam with such bulbs, as there is no change to the orientation of the light source in relation to the reflector.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

Tom, presumably your photos show bright and dim for your lights, and the dim is achieved by driving the leds at a lower power. There can be no high/low beam with such bulbs, as there is no change to the orientation of the light source in relation to the reflector.

Allan from down under.

The pictures appear to show all LED chips lit on high beam being reflected but only the forward array lit for low beam. The reflector isn't capturing much of anything from the LED in low beam and the picture is just shows the forward LEDs in the fluted lens. As far as brightness goes - Standard Model T filament bulbs are rated 50/32 CP & that is mostly reflected light but lower Kelvin. The LEDs are likely closer to that than the rated spec since not all is being reflected. As I stated earlier the higher K value changes the color of objects making them appear brighter but not having more light shine on them. So if these are even in a brightness tie with standard filament bulbs its a 1/2 watt (.083amps) vs 21w/6w (3.5/1 amps). That's a plus if its needed!

I checked the spec for the bulb and it does have a the option ffor high & low beam
V LED Headlight. Works 6V AC or 6V DC. 60 quantity 5730 smd leds. Optically filament aligned so you get maximum light output through your headlight fixture and lens. The headlight is dimmable using a variable voltage supply. Being dimmable helps out with the older vintage and classic vehicles voltage system and wiring is not 100%. There is a total of 16 forward firing and 44 side firing leds. Each 5730 uses up to 1/2 Watt of power. This bulb up to 950 Lumen or 70 MSCP for high beam. Low beam up to 500 Lumens or 40 CP for low beam. Compatible with C-6 filament designed light bulbs. Comparable to a 30 Watt to 55-56W Watt incandescent light bulb. This bulb works in both 6 volt negative ground and 6 volt positive ground vehicles, tractors and motorcycles. This lamp can operate 6 Volts and has both a low beam and a high beam filament. Long life up to 30,000 hours. Long warranty please see warranty details below. This 6v bulb shape will fit your headlight without any issues with installation. The shape is this bulbs is smaller than a normal BA15D headlight bulb. The maximum diameter is 1.058" inches. The maximum overall length is 1.944 inches. CE and Rohs listed. Extended warranty please see detail page for more details. The BA15D base has two bayonets that are same height and two contacts on the bottom. Uses about 1 Amp @ 6.3 Volts. Compatible with: #1158 1158 BA15D 919-1931 Ford 1926, 1927 Ford Model T 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 Model A A-13007-C Snyders A-13007-D Snyders 6572BX Langs

[Allan]

Frank, you and I are seeing different things. The forward array that is showing for low beam is not as right as it is in the other photo, indicating that this array is being driven a lower power. i agree the reflector isn't capturing much of the light. How can it when the leds are aimed to the front.

The specs state that the headlight is dimmable, using a variable voltage supply. They do not state that there is a high/low beam function.
High and low beam are not the same as bright and dim.

The Ford parabolic reflector design is simply not able to focus and direct light from multiple light sources like an array of 44 leds, so high and low beam are not achievable.

Allan from down under.

[TXGOAT2]

The 1912 Cadillac had true high and low beam headlights. They used a mechanical linkage to allow the chauffeur to tilt the reflectors within the headlight housings.

[TRDxB2]

Frank, you and I are seeing different things. The forward array that is showing for low beam is not as right as it is in the other photo, indicating that this array is being driven a lower power. i agree the reflector isn't capturing much of the light. How can it when the leds are aimed to the front.

The specs state that the headlight is dimmable, using a variable voltage supply. They do not state that there is a high/low beam function.
High and low beam are not the same as bright and dim.

The Ford parabolic reflector design is simply not able to focus and direct light from multiple light sources like an array of 44 leds, so high and low beam are not achievable.

Allan from down under.

You are correct. I selected a different LED. The website has several LED bulbs configured the same way. I would not have selected the one referenced in the photos (Product Code 68523). LED 87455 would be a better choice of the two. I do agree that the arrangement of LEDs aren't reflected properly

The one in the photos is 68523

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The one I referenced above https://www.ledlight.com/6v-led-headlight.aspx

6 LED Headlight. Works 6V AC or 6V DC. 60 quantity 5730 smd leds. Optically filament aligned so you get maximum light output through your headlight fixture and lens. The headlight is dimmable using a variable voltage supply. Being dimmable helps out with the older vintage and classic vehicles voltage system and wiring is not 100%. There is a total of 16 forward firing and 44 side firing leds. Each 5730 uses up to 1/2 Watt of power. This bulb up to 950 Lumen or 70 MSCP for high beam. Low beam up to 500 Lumens or 40 CP for low beam. Compatible with C-6 filament designed light bulbs. Comparable to a 30 Watt to 55-56W Watt incandescent light bulb. This bulb works in both 6 volt negative ground and 6 volt positive ground vehicles, tractors and motorcycles. This lamp can operate 6 Volts and has both a low beam and a high beam filament. Long life up to 30,000 hours. Long warranty please see warranty details below. This 6v bulb shape will fit your headlight without any issues with installation. The shape is this bulbs is smaller than a normal BA15D headlight bulb. The maximum diameter is 1.058" inches. The maximum overall length is 1.944 inches. CE and Rohs listed. Extended warranty please see detail page for more details. The BA15D base has two bayonets that are same height and two contacts on the bottom. Uses about 1 Amp @ 6.3 Volts. Compatible with: #1158 1158 BA15D 919-1931 Ford 1926, 1927 Ford Model T 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 Model A A-13007-C Snyders A-13007-D Snyders 6572BX Langs

[Norman Kling]

I might as well add my two cents worth I rarely drive at night so it really does not matter whether or not I can see clearly with the lights on. Since my after market reflectors have been chrome plated instead of the original silver, they are not as bright as would normally be. I use the 6 volt incandescent bulbs and connect them so the lights come on in either position of the switch. Doesn't seem to make much difference which way it is turned.
Mostly I would drive to a hotel or motel after having dinner just a few blocks away in an area with streetlights so I don't need them to see. Other times I might need them for driving through tunnels. Usually the tunnel is short and I can see the other end right when I enter. On tours, if we should happen to be driving farther distances after dark, there is usually a modern car in the lead and one at the end of the group with flashers on to warn the others on the road that slow moving vehicles are proceeding. Anyway, that is my 50c worth
Norm

[TRDxB2]

Everyone should drive with there lights on day or night - especially a Model T. Its not about what you can see but that others see you.

[TWrenn]

Everyone should drive with there lights on day or night - especially a Model T. Its not about what you can see but that others see you.

Sure headlights are a good safety idea, but frankly it's the REAR that i worry about most...so many cars come zooming up from behind almost ramming us. A lot is from distracted driving of course. And surprising how many people haven't a clue how fast they're gaining up on us from behind either. And rear lamps barely cut it, especially in daytime.

[Tom Donnelly]

Hey Guys,
Sorry about the confusion on the two photos of the lights! There's only one power supply and one brightness level. Was trying to emphasize how much surface area of the reflectors are used with this style of LED bulb. I used a low aperture and high aperture shot. Despite a lot of plating loss, just amazed at how much light is projected!

[TXGOAT2]

You really need good headlights, two bright stop/tail lights, tag light, and reflectors. Turn signals and side marker lights/reflectors, too. It's amazing how many police cars stopped out of traffic lanes at night, with all lights flashing, get rammed at high speed by drunks and telephone operators.

[TXGOAT2]

Around here, deer and wild pigs are a bigger hazard than traffic. I'd drive a lot more at night if I had adequate lighting, front and rear. My headlights are OK up to about 30 MPH when the ditches are mowed and the right of way is full width. Above that, you're liable to come into contact with a pig or a deer. Seeing the road is usually not the issue. It's what jumps out in front that counts. As for driving on the main highway after dark in a solid black car with a single small tail light at 35-40 MPH when everyone else is doing 75-85, that's just crazy. There isn't a lot of traffic, but nearly all of them drive like their butts are ablaze. Smashed pigs and deer litter the roadways. Some of the splashes are downright spectacular, with animal parts, various fluids, and car parts scatttered 200 feet down the road from the point of initial contact. Most of these collisions occur after dark.

[Allan]

Pat, you raise a good point. Bright long distance LED lights wash out the colour of what is down the road. Unless you see movement, it is hard to tell if there is a roo or wild pig from whatever greenery is on the roadside. Everything looks the same colour. At least in a T, with incandescent bulbs, you have a chance and time to re-act.

Allan from down under.