1912 Commercial Roadster Rear Fenders

[Distagon2]

I am re-restoring a 1912 Commercial Roadster and the previous owner used Torpedo rear fenders rather than the “flat-top” rear fenders such as was used on the 1912 Touring. Supposedly, the 1912 Touring and Roadster rear fenders are the same. Well, I prefer the “flat-top” fenders over the curvey Torpedo fenders. So…I purchased rear fenders from Rootlieb (nice product!) and found they don’t mount with my current fender iron setup. The rear fender irons I have on the car (see picture) protrude in-line with the rear cross member. This doesn’t work on mounting the Rootlieb flat-top fenders. One way to describe it is that the inner mounting bracket is about 8” too far back on the fender (see picture). My question is, are there other rear fender irons that I should be trying to find? If so, they would have to mount to the body itself (a la Touring) or maybe there is some special iron they used that I am unaware of. Hopefully this question is clear. The first picture is a Torpedo fender, by the way, which mounts OK to my existing fendor irons.

This is no doubt one of many questions to follow about a 1912 Commercial Roadster. This car was pretty much complete parts-wise, except it was fairly disassembled to I am working on figuring out how it all goes together. I am new to these early brass T's but have restored a 26 Coupe and several Model A's, but I appreciate being able to ask questions of those of you with early car experience.

[Tbird]

Greg, I saw your previous post on FB and left a few comments and pictures of what you need. Reach out to Richard Gould, he is here on this forum and he is currently restoring a 12 Commercial roadster, I recommend you reaching out to him.

[Scott_Conger]

Gregory

I am all but certain that by 1912, the iron was bolted to the outside of the sill, and directly to the body bracket (and I'm pretty sure that is for all cars and not unique to the Commercial).

Regardless of my opinion, the question intrigues me and like you, I am waiting for a definitive answer.

[Scott_Conger]

Well, I have just quickly shown myself to be wrong. Is this iron longer/higher than yours?? Here is what I think you're looking for:

[Distagon2]

Scott-
The rear fender irons on that beautiful survivor look to be pretty much the same as the ones on my car now, although they do appear to have been tweaked a bit. I think I need some fender irons that bolt to the body part that protrudes past the rear crossmember of the frame. Give or take......

[Distagon2]

TBird, I sent RGould1910 a message so we will see if he rings in.

[Distagon2]

Scott-

Thanks for the input, by the way. I appreciate you contributing to the "search" for the solution to my fender problem. The solution is probably going to be quite simple and obvious.....once I stumble on it. I am finding the 1912 Roadster to be somewhat challenging but it sure is pretty.

Greg

[slang250]

Hello Greg,

I just had a nice conversation with George Scheppler maybe a week ago on the different fenders that was used on 1912 commercial roadsters.

Both the rounded style and the flat top style were used. George painted out that the best way to tell what fenders and brackets you need is to look at the way the last body bracket is bolted into the car.

The curved fenders the ones correct for your car. They took the bracket that you had and come straight out the side of the body like you have stated. and also use the fenders that you already had. The bolts for the rear body brackets have the head of the bolt on the outside of the sill which would not allow you to bolt in the later style fender bracket.

Later roadsters used the flat top fenders, but it requires at least doing these three things. I might be missing something though.
1. changing the fender brackets that bolt to the outside of the sill and come out and backwards at a slight angle.
2. flipping the bolt around in the sill so that the head of the bolt is on the inside of the body.
3. changing the body brackets that are inside of your sill and bolted to the rear cross member because you might find that you have round holes punched in yours and you will need brackets with a square hole punched in them instead to allow the head of the carriage bolt to fit in it.


Steve

[krklein]

I may be wrong, but the rivet position of mounting bracket appears to be too far back on the top of the fender as compared to the curved fenders. Could this be part of the problem? -- Kevin Klein

[slang250]

Here is two 1912 adverts from Ford.

I also remember George saying something about some cars with the butterfly brackets were used as well but I cannot remember if that was for 1911 or 1912 as well. They took a flat top fender with two fender eye bolts on each fender.

[Scott_Conger]

Courtesy: Hyman - advertised as a 1912, but with butterfly fender irons, should be earlier, I think

[Tbird]

If you do go with the butterfly fender irons you will either need to add an extra fender bracket on your fenders or get the correct 09-10 fenders that has the two brackets. When researching the correct rear fender brackets for my Delivery car I found that the Delivery car used the 1910 rear Fender but with only one bracket.

[slang250]

Scott, those are some good photos of the butter-fly bracket setup.

Here are some photos of the later style brackets that are bolted on the outside of the sill that the new fenders need.

[Scott_Conger]

Yeah, your picture shows what I originally thought belonged there and then faltered in my certainty. It's nice that you have a good clear photo of that and bad for the poster who has already (gorgeously) painted his car! Thank you for posting it for us to see.

I recently finished wrestling with that type iron on my '23 and am embarrassed to even hint at the time it took me to bend/tweak it to get nice level and square rear fenders which still lined up with the dust aprons and running boards...! What a chore! (maybe I'm just slow-witted)

Even those on the Volo car really could have used a little more time spent on them for better alignment/level.

[Distagon2]

Thanks to all of you for your expertise, it is greatly appreciated. You know, if I could locate those rear fender irons such as are on that Volo car, I might still go the flat-top fender route. (Maybe) But for now, looks like I am going to use the Torpedo style fenders.