Model T Old Wives Tales

Post by **Humblej** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:13 am

When I got started in the Model T hobby in the early 1970's (as a wee lad), we did not have a lot of research available. The MTFCA and MTFCI had good articles in their magazines, the Les Henry Restoration Handbook, and the Clymer publications was it. Today we have the lifetime research from Bruce, the MTFCA Encyclopedia, public access to the Benson Ford Research Center including microfiche of the actual Ford drawings, and some well documented original examples like the Rip Van Winkle 1917 touring.

I grew up with the old wives tales:
All model T's were painted black.
They were poorly made and slapped together.
They were designed to be repaired by farmers with simple tools and no special knowledge.
They went uphill better in reverse.
Oatmeal in the radiator, sawdust in the differential, and bailing wire, will fix most problems.

Many posters on this site ask the same questions that have been asked year after year for the 15 years or so that I have been here. Many questions, and answers to questions, show a lack of interest in really researching and discovering. How often is a response "I dont know, but I have heard..."

Why not look it up first in the encylopedia, the Ford Service Manual, the Ford Service Bulletins, old Forum postings.

I would like to encourage everyone who hasn't, to become a member of the MTFCA or MTFCI to get the magazine. Those with a survivor car or special knowledge from a research project to submit an article with pictures and documentation to the magazines for publication. Get familiar with the MTFCA Encyclopedia and search there before asking the often repeated questions. Do a search of old posts before asking the often repeated questions. Don't know if a subject is an often repeated question? then you probably are not searching older posts. I have trouble using the search feature for some reason, but if I do a google search with MTFCA I get it that way, so I know it can be done one way or the other.

For those of us that want to jump in with advice or answers, please be sure you know what you are talking about. I am guilty of this too. Lets endeavor not to pass on old wives tales.

Been Here Before · Post by **Been Here Before** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:22 am

On driving, a Model T, care is needed on using the floor peddles. Pushing high-low and reverse at the same time, to stop or slowdown, will split the car in two.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:30 am

After participating here for awhile I realized that I was repeating myself as some questions came up repeatedly, so I added a Model T section to my website. Now when somebody asks what kind of oil or how much is this car worth I just post a link for them to do some reading on the subject.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:35 am

When the wife gets too old to crank the Model T, it's time to trade her in.

Post by **Art M** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:42 am

The questions stay the same, the answers change
Art Mirtes

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:54 am

It is not necessary to read every question, let alone reply to every question.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:26 am

That is very unkind to your wife, Pat. One solution would be to teach her to drive so you can get out and crank. If she won't drive or cannot drive, then spend some money and get a starter!

Norm

browning · Post by **browning** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:41 am

One I have experienced at car shows is "the danged fool got the steering wheel on upside down".

Post by **NY John T** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:55 am

I think that it's perfectly valid for someone to ask a question that has been asked before. That person probably doesn't know of the other resources for information. A person new to the model T world should be encouraged to seek info anywhere. I know that many times I've needed to know something in a hurry and personally, have not all the books nor resources at my fingers. Keep the newbies coming. It only benefits our world.
John

Post by **Gordon C** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:01 pm

My Dad had a 1914:Saxon. He was teaching his sister to drive. He cranked the Saxon up and his sister
In the driver's seat let her foot slip off
the clutch and she ran over my Dad.
Always let the woman crank the car !!

rickd · Post by **rickd** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:10 pm

I think Mr. Humble has a lot of good points in his post. At the same time I benefit from the repeated questions because sometimes new solutions and ideas come up, and I learn from those new ideas. I have other antique cars besides my Model Ts and the common experience with all of them is that the learning never stops. I enjoy that.

Post by **JohnM** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:12 pm

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:54 am
It is not necessary to read every question, let alone reply to every question.

Says the one with 4,557 comments.

Post by **ModelT46** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:26 pm

I was 14 when I bought my 1910 in 1946. My dad drove it home for me, but I was driving it around the neighborhood that day. It only took me a few minutes to learn how to drive the T. By the end of a few days I knew quite bit about Model Ts. I installed new bands a few weeks later. Bought a set of bands from Sears and Roebuck for about a dollar. The next year I bought a 1916 center door and drove it to school. Sold it the next year for $85. My next T was a 1925 touring, a nice one. Paid about $75 for that one. Burned out the engine and found a NOS block which I used to replace the burned out one. Sold that one for about $200. I still have the 1910. For a daily car, I bought a good 1929 Model A. The next sumer I found a very nice 1932 Lincoln 4 door for $100. Used that one all summer. The clutch started to slip and sold it for $125. I then bought like new 1935 Chevolet for $200. Used that for a year, but sold it when I joined the Army in Nov. 1950. When I was out of active duty and in the reserves in 1953 I bought 1 942 Chevolet.

Post by **JTT3** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:34 pm

… —- … … —- … …—-…

Post by **George House** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:38 pm

...Duh,.. I heard Model T floorboards were made outta crates in which Henry’s suppliers furnished parts....
Zat true ??

All very good points Jeff

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:49 pm

They burned the crates to make charcoal briquettes.

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:26 pm

Thanks for bring this up. We should all do the best we can in asking and answering questions. In a perfect world it would happen.
People being people, there will always be disappointments. I often miss the boat when answering questions and have to be corrected. Often, I don't post as I know others know better. Some of my advice isn't the best or most popular. However, some questions go unanswered until one of us posts something and then the right answers come onto the thread.
Hearing these suggestions will no doubt make us better but bear with us who struggle more than others. I don't want anyone to be afraid to ask for help.
I hesitated to post this too.
Rich

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:35 pm

The desire to eliminate repetitive questions and "streamline" conversations has killed at least one forum that I know of. Boredom and a low tolerance for suffering fools gladly has caused many participants to leave these boards.

This site remains a safe haven for all questions that get answered promptly, courteously and with a baseline of reliable accuracy. Under the aegis of the MTFCA, folks new to the model T can learn of the resources that are available, and literally "improve their ride". You can lead a horse to water . . .

It's not entirely about milking the knowledgeable "old timers" for the short answer. Repetitive queries very often lead to worthwhile new products and/or processes. As pointed out, there is no need to read, follow or respond to every post. As for replying with a "wrong" answer, many times I have offered my best shot only to be corrected. The result ? Everyone gained !

Above all, there is enough broad interest, personal stories, good pictures and humor to make this the friendliest, most "fun" community on the whole interweb !! Merry Christmas to all, and God bless !

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:34 pm

All good points. As to asking a common question... The very fact that a common question is asked, demonstrates that the questioner is most likely unaware that it's a common question and therefore can't be blamed for not knowing to "look it up" or research it because it's been asnwered 10 dozen times already. In fact, asking the question here really is a form of "looking it up." Let's just be patient and feel good about being able to provide guidance for a new T owner.

By the way, Henry Ford made the very first car you know!

A Whiteman · Post by **A Whiteman** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:41 pm

All good points. As to asking a common question... The very fact that a common question is asked, demonstrates that the questioner is most likely unaware that it's a common question and therefore can't be blamed for not knowing to "look it up" or research it because it's been asnwered 10 dozen times already. In fact, asking the question here really is a form of "looking it up." Let's just be patient and feel good about being able to provide guidance for a new T owner.

Yep, fully agree.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:11 pm

Repeating a question that appeared in the past can bring forth new links, updated parts sources & service providers, etc.

Post by **Bryant** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:42 pm

Sometimes it’s more than just getting an answer to a question. There can be a certain excitement to starting a thread and actually being part of something versus just looking it up. It’s one of the reasons I joined this community, otherwise I probably could have just typed it into a search engine and received a answer without all the interesting personalities attached to it. I have learned a good bit of the old wives tales surrounding this car by now and get a kick out of hearing them still being told out in the wild.
Bryant

Post by **Craig Leach** » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:01 pm

Why is it that some times it takes 10-20 posts with offerings of how much we know before someone actually answers the question?
Craig.

Burger in Spokane · Post by **Burger in Spokane** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:10 am

I even hear from knowledgeable T guys that TT trucks are slow.

Post by **TRDxB2** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:18 am

Craig Leach wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:01 pm
Why is it that some times it takes 10-20 posts with offerings of how much we know before someone actually answers the question?
Craig.

Yup! What's really interesting about this thread is that the initial post by the author wasn't posed as a question but a recommendation/instruction :

It was never a "question" or a request for opinions.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:23 am

I'm utterly shocked to find that opinions are offered on a general discussion forum.

Been Here Before · Post by **Been Here Before** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:25 am

""I'm utterly shocked to find that opinions are offered on a general discussion forum.""

A Forum: a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Too: ""When I got started in the Model T hobby in the early 1970's (as a wee lad), we did not have a lot of research available.""

The Model T Ford has probable been the most written about automobile since it went into production. The Information available is impressive -- from the Dyke supplements, the books by various authors, and even the Sears catalogues of the period before the 1970's. Probably the only thing that has changed is people now rely on the internet/WWW for their information, rather than visiting public/university libraries and news stands.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:39 am

Craig Leach wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:01 pm
Why is it that some times it takes 10-20 posts with offerings of how much we know before someone actually answers the question?
Craig.

It's because sometimes it takes that long before someone will completely read the inital posting/question before answering.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:26 am

It's just awful! Bring in the Fact Checkers! Require certification by experts! O! The bandwidth!

Post by **CudaMan** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:45 am

I posted about a similar topic a month or so ago. A lot of new Model T owners on Facebook are unaware of this forum or the encyclopedia, when we engage with them on Facebook we need to make them aware of all the other resources available, including the many articles on Steve Jelf's web page:

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

5 WoodenWheels · Post by **5 WoodenWheels** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:42 am

Bryant wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:42 pm
Sometimes it’s more than just getting an answer to a question. There can be a certain excitement to starting a thread and actually being part of something versus just looking it up. It’s one of the reasons I joined this community, otherwise I probably could have just typed it into a search engine and received a answer without all the interesting personalities attached to it. I have learned a good bit of the old wives tales surrounding this car by now and get a kick out of hearing them still being told out in the wild.
Bryant

I agree. There's encouragement and moral support from hearing others chime in on a problem that one might think is theirs alone. I think it helps new owners like me take a little more initiative in figuring things out, instead of becoming frustrated and wondering who would possibly want to be working on this old rattle-trap!

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:55 am

This morning I saw a Facebook post elaborating on the old crate/floorboard story. Henry not only used shipping crates for floorboards, but he required the crates to be of certain dimensions so that when they were broken down they could immediately be installed as floorboards without alteration.

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:30 pm

Yes ! And they came cut to the correct angles. The pedal slots were also pre-cut and had the "irons" already installed as well. They were useful hand-holds on the shipping crates.

(But what about those charcoal briquettes??)

Post by **TRDxB2** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:53 pm

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:49 pm
They burned the crates to make charcoal briquettes.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsford_(charcoal)
Ford Motor Company sold more than one million Ford Model Ts in 1919. Each one used 100 board feet of wood for parts such as frame, dashboard, steering wheel and wheels. Because of the amount of wood used, Henry Ford decided to produce his own supply. He enlisted the help of Edward G. Kingsford, a real estate agent in Michigan, to locate a supply of wood. Kingsford’s wife was a cousin of Ford. In the early 1920s, Ford acquired large timberland in Iron Mountain, Michigan, and built a sawmill and parts plant in a neighboring area which became Kingsford, Michigan. The mill and plants produced sufficient parts for the car, but generated waste such as stumps, branches and sawdust. Ford suggested that all wood scraps be processed into charcoal.

A University of Oregon chemist, Orin Stafford, had invented a method for making pillow-shaped lumps of fuel from sawdust and mill waste combined with tar and bound together with cornstarch. He called the lumps "charcoal briquettes." Thomas Edison designed the briquette factory adjacent to the sawmill, and Kingsford ran it. It was a model of efficiency, producing 610 lb (280 kg) of briquettes for every ton of scrap wood. The product was sold only through Ford dealerships. Ford named the new business Ford Charcoal and dubbed the charcoal blocks "briquets". At the beginning, the charcoal was sold to meat and fish smokehouses, but demand exceeded supply.

By the mid-1930s, Ford was marketing "Picnic Kits" containing charcoal and portable grills at Ford dealerships, capitalizing on the link between motoring and outdoor adventure that his own Vagabond travels popularized. "Enjoy a modern picnic," the package suggested. "Sizzling broiled meats, steaming coffee, toasted sandwiches." It wasn’t until after World War II that backyard barbecuing took off, thanks to suburban migration, the invention of the Weber grill and the marketing efforts. An investment group bought Ford Charcoal in 1951 and renamed it to Kingsford Charcoal in honor of Edward G. Kingsford (and the factory's home-base name) and took over the operations. The plant was later acquired by Clorox in 1973.

Post by **Humblej** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:58 pm

Who's on first.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:14 pm

Been Here Before · Post by **Been Here Before** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:22 pm

I decided to review the Facebook Model T Ford pages....

Wow......

It is true what has been stated about stuff found on the WWW.......

Opinion from a friend.

Been Here Before · Post by **Been Here Before** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:27 pm

"Ford was marketing "Picnic Kits" containing charcoal and portable grills ..."

: indexthehenryfordgrillpix.jpg (9.94 KiB) Viewed 7015 times

Post by **tdump** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:43 pm

Part of this hobby and many others is the meeting other people of similar interest.
I have heard it said that Model T's collect the nicest people.
IF everyone that bought a Model T just sat down at the computer and ordered books,this hobby would have shrunk alot more than it has.
Gathering here,finding this site, brings people together.Those books don't allow you to find out a club member is 40 miles east of you or give you contact info,this site does.

Burger in Spokane · Post by **Burger in Spokane** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:32 am

What is the best oil to use on your Model T water pump ?

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:43 am

And I’ve been looking for water pump instructions and a Ford part number on a Ford parts list or at least some mention about it in the Ford service manual. Could this be another one of those old wives tales everybody’s been talking about??
But it was on the internet wasn’t it??

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:58 am

Use oatmeal mixed with beeswax for your water pump packing. Oil the bearing with motor oil. For those pesky radiator leaks, do not use oatmeal as some garage quacks recommend. Use fine ground black pepper instead. If your Ford must be towed, do not use more than one mule, and leave the lever forward. To wash your Ford.... don't. Nobody washes Fords. If you wash off the mud, it will just rattle more.

Post by **sweet23** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:32 pm

A little gas, A little oil. A little spark, A little coil. A piece of tin and a 2 inch board. Put 'um together, and you got a FORD !

Post by **Art M** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:39 pm

Leaky head gasket. Kerosene in the radiator. Drain in spring
Art Mirtes

Post by **gary80005** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:19 am

Here is my Old Wives tale. When my wife rides in my 27 roadster I have a passenger side airbag!

Good thing she doesn't read this forum.

Oh, and how about setting the coil points with a thin dime? Remember when dimes were silver and wore down? Or fixing the babbitt on a rod with a piece of your leather belt. I've put clothes pins on my gas line to keep the engine from vapor locking. My dad told me the oatmeal in the radiator trick in 1961 when we bought the car. I was 9. He also said they used bootleg whiskey in the radiator in the Winter in Pueblo, CO. Prestone is a lot cheaper now days. By the way, jacking up the rear tire to start the T on a cold day works!! I've used this many times in the Fall and Winter in Colorado.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:00 am

Pantyhose fan belt, soap on gas tank leaks, sawdust in the rear axle, mothballs in gas tank ... and any car will hold the road better with a lucite steering wheel knob accessory with a nekkid lady picture in it.

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:10 am

Now it's becoming mix and match ! The thin dime is for spark plug gap, and is a reasonable gauge. Not a repair, but old-time brown laundry soap will stop gasoline from seeping. Perhaps not with today's strange brew, but it worked for me 60 years ago. Not the soap you're bathing with. On an excursion with my friend Rich Eagle some 50 years ago, #1 rod lost its babbitt. We made it home on three cylinders and a chunk of leather belt, removed the spark plug to reduce the stress. Near seventy miles on rough back roads in the east hills.

Not exactly Model T era, I Don't think the lucite "suicide knobs" would fit a fat Model T steering wheel. My 1947 Case model D had one, though !

(It wasn't lucite)

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:38 am

Stop at Western Auto or Pep Boys and get T parts off the racks. Or order on the J.C. Whitney catalog.
These days a dime doesn't wear thin because they either go in top jars or on the top of the dresser when the pockets are emptied. I only carry paper or cards for purchase. Sometimes if I get several dollars of coins I use them for tips. The waiters probably don't like it. I wonder why they don't just discontinue coins and round everything to the nearest dollar. After all it's worth less than a dime was when I was a kid. I remember one time when my mother raided the piggy bank and got about 25c. She walked down to the corner store and bought enough food for dinner for three. I was just a little boy then.
Norm

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:20 pm

Or fixing the babbitt on a rod with a piece of your leather belt.

My uncle Ozzo Jelf (1899-1994) told me his T lost a bearing out in the wilds of western Kansas and he used a piece of bacon rind to get him into Colorado for proper repairs. Probably true. He wasn't given to telling tall tales.

Post by **Dan Hatch** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:14 pm

What is not an old wife’s tale is how much can be fixed on a T with modified bituminous roofing tar.

Post by **John kuehn** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:39 pm

I heard years ago a thin leather belt would work for a while if you didn’t run the engine hard. It probably would to since a T engine is fairly low RPM. If you’ve ever been inside a T engine or differential you can wonder how or why they didn’t come apart. It’s amazing the abuse a T would take and people didn’t think anything about it and let them keep rattling on!

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:02 pm

As Rich B. mentioned, we used leather on that occasion and once on another T. I tried the tag from the back of my Levis, but it was spat out immediately. The tongue of one riding mechanics boot was successful. These were cross country rallies, and the other car ran two days as mentioned with 3 cylinders. The was no damage to the crankshaft journal and it might have run many more miles that way. The fat in the bacon rind would no doubt be a better choice. I suspect the two incidents added up to a hundred miles. We did many repairs on those cross-country outings. Gasoline makes a wonderful cleaning agent. A broken radius rod was repaired with bailing wire. A noisy crank pulley was shimmed with a tin can. Several other back road repairs were made out of necessity. The worst roads possible were conquered on some of those trips and gave much insight on what was encountered in the old days. Also, the amazing things a Model T could do.
The fun we have before we became older and wiser.

Post by **John kuehn** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:37 pm

Growing up on the farm and working on greasy motors and machinery gasoline was a good cleaning agent and we used it most of the time! We also used kerosene some because we raised chickens on the farm commercially and had up to 16.000 at one time in three houses. The kerosene was used in kerosene fired brooders with a chimney flue going through the roof. The brooders kept the chickens warm during the winter. And the chimneys weren’t double walled either!
These days the younger crowd wouldn’t believe how things use to be done. They were not OSHA approved for sure!! And those aren’t old wives tales either.