Wiggly Steering Wheel

[CatGuy]

Since it's too cold to work in the garage and the car is in a really inconvenient spot in the garage, I'm stockpiling parts for warmer weather. I have new coils now! Anyway, when I bought this car, '26 Roadster, I've noticed that the steering wheel is....wiggly. I bought a stock steering wheel and braved the cold last week (sub zero) enough to see how it would look and disassemble the steering gears. I really can't tell much. There is some grease in there. A couple times when I was driving it if I turned the wheel while stopped I would hear a popping sound. Just a single pop. The car steers pretty good and isn't hard to handle. I see some new gears online. Would I just go with a new set of 'oversized' gears to make up the 'slop'?

[Dan Haynes]

I've found the most common cause of that pop to be the pitman arm on the bottom of the steering shaft to be a little loose.

[speedytinc]

I am not aware of the offering of "oversized" gears. There should be no such thing, only originally sized gears.
You need to narrow down the problem. You are implying its loose or sloppy steering planetary gears. Remove the gear case cover. Check the 3 pins for being a loose fit in the shaft & wear on those pins & gears. Much of the time replacing worn pins is all thats needed. The replacement pins are a few thousands larger than original pins, so minimal gear hole wear will have an improved fit. Take your caliper & measure the pin O.D.'s. They should read .373". New pins will measure .375" The original gears originally measured .375".
Be sure the upper column housing rivets are tight & there are no cracks in the tube. When you turn the wheel the gear case should not twist in the column.

[Norman Kling]

A few things to add to the above. The cap on the steering box can be worn so that the shaft going up toward the steering will wobble. This would need a new or bushed cap. Also the steering box might be loose in the column. Sometimes you can wedge a small piece of hacksaw blade between the box and the column to tighten things up.
Other things can cause looseness outside the steering box, such as the bushings at the lower column bracket which is attached to the frame, and also the spindle arms where they are attached to the spindle. And of course the ball joints at each end of the pitman arm.
Norm

[John kuehn]

The only “oversized” steering gears for a Model T are the ones used in a 26-27 gear case. Ford changed the gears in 26 and it was a design change. Your wiggly steering can start with a worn out steering gear case and gears, pitman arm or worn out steering gear bushings through out the front end including the tie rods and spindle bushings on each side of the front axle.

One more thing you could do to determine what’s loose, popping and etc is to jack the front axle off the ground. You can use two jack stands. Locate each one near near the front of the car.
Slowly move the steering wheel back and forth while watching the front wheels to see how far the steering wheel moves before turning the wheels. Also notice the pitman arm the spindle arms and the tie rods. You’ll soon discover how much is worn out and it will be more than you think.

[Allan]

I would not advise using the steering whell to go from lock to lock while stationary. Such action puts heavy loads on all components. The pop may just be warning you not to stress me too much. Jack the front axle and then check out your wiggle.

Allan from down under.

[CatGuy]

I’ll have to try to post pictures later, but I checked on it again tonight. It appears the threads on the gear cover and case are just worn out. If that little screw didn’t hold….I suppose the wheel would come right off? Is there any fix for this? I see new steering gear covers (3504B) are available, but what about the case?

[Scott_Conger]

John and John

Yes, there is an oversize 5:1 steering gear replacement pinion. It is the shaft which is oversize to make up for slop in the gear box cover. Either the gearbox cover gets modified, the pinion is machined to match the cover, or both are altered. The gear pitch is not oversize and I think that is what confuses some people.

[John kuehn]

I think this is the oversize 5 to 1 steering box gear set Scott C. is referring to.
It’s sold by Lang’s and maybe others. I think Texas T came out with it several years ago before they sold the company. But I’m not to sure Ford had the oversize set in the model T era. It was an aftermarket product. I can remember people wanting the 5 to 1 26-27 gears and box to use in their earlier T’s years ago. Then Texas T came out with one.

BUT I could be mistaken about when the oversize set came out and if Ford did it first. But I bet Scott C might know or others.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3517-19BW.aspx

[CatGuy]

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The bad news is that you need another steering gear case. Yours is badly split and somewhat dangerous as it might cause the steering to lock up on you. Others here might encourage you to repair it. My sincere hope is that you find a good used one. Do they make these new??

[CatGuy]

The bad news is that you need another steering gear case. Yours is badly split and somewhat dangerous as it might cause the steering to lock up on you. Others here might encourage you to repair it. My sincere hope is that you find a good used one. Do they make these new??

I wondered if I was seeing a split there. I might know of someone that has another one. It appears that the threads are so bad that the only thing holding it together is that little screw.

[John kuehn]

It’s probably best to try to find another steering gear case or a complete column. Call Lang’s and tell them what you need. They have a decent amount of good used T parts on hand. It would be easier to find a complete column assembly I think. Good luck.

[CatGuy]

It’s probably best to try to find another steering gear case or a complete column. Call Lang’s and tell them what you need. They have a decent amount of good used T parts on hand. It would be easier to find a complete column assembly I think. Good luck.

There's a guy that's a 15 minute drive away from me that is 'hotrodding' a Model T and will have plenty of parts available. I'll probably try him first so as to save shipping. I don't often think of places like Lang's having used parts, but I guess I should.

[Moxie26]

I would degrease , clean , and then braze that crack in the steering case. Reinstall regrease, put a new cover on that would compensate wear on the center gear that the steering wheel attaches. Replacing the case requires drilling out the old rivets and then installing the replacement case with new rivets. That would be the next step if you could find out who can do your rivet work

[John kuehn]

Since you have a 26 T make sure you get a 26-27 column or gear case. It will fit your car. The earlier columns and gears are different in ratio. Your is 5 to 1 whereas the earlier ones are 4 to 1. The way they mount is some what different also.

[TXGOAT2]

The popping sound you heard was probably the sun gear jumping a tooth, or could have been the case splitting. Either way, I'd replace the case, cover, pins, and gears, or find a good used assembly. If your steering wheel can be turned left and right without moving the front wheels, that is "slack", or "free play" and it can be caused by wear or loose parts anywhere in the steering system. "Wiggle" suggests that the stub shaft the steering wheel attaches to is loose in the steering box cover, allowing the steering wheel to wiggle or wobble on the column. A car can have both conditions. A T with good steereing is a pleasure to drive on any decent excuse for a road.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Since you have a 26 T make sure you get a 26-27 column or gear case. It will fit your car. The earlier columns and gears are different in ratio. Your is 5 to 1 whereas the earlier ones are 4 to 1. The way they mount is some what different also.

Good advice!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I would degrease , clean , and then braze that crack in the steering case. Reinstall regrease, put a new cover on that would compensate wear on the center gear that the steering wheel attaches. Replacing the case requires drilling out the old rivets and then installing the replacement case with new rivets. That would be the next step if you could find out who can do your rivet work

You're assuming he can't install two small rivets, but also assuming he can braze the case back together safely? That case is toast. The threads are shot to the point that the cover falls off without the retaining screw in place.

[aDave]

OP wrote:
"I don't often think of places like Lang's having used parts, but I guess I should."

Lang's does indeed have a HUGE inventory of used parts. If in doubt, call and ask.
Dave

[Norman Kling]

I would not even try to repair that steering box. It is very important for your safety to have a good one. I can't say why or how that happened, but you could lose all control of steering if you drive it that way. imagine going around a corner and not being able to straighten out.
I don't know whether there are swap meets around where you live, but there usually a big one in the southwest area, I think somewhere in Oklahoma every year. You should be able to find a good one there. Be sure it is for 26-27 because they are different from the others.
Norm

[CatGuy]

I would degrease , clean , and then braze that crack in the steering case. Reinstall regrease, put a new cover on that would compensate wear on the center gear that the steering wheel attaches. Replacing the case requires drilling out the old rivets and then installing the replacement case with new rivets. That would be the next step if you could find out who can do your rivet work

You're assuming he can't install two small rivets, but also assuming he can braze the case back together safely? That case is toast. The threads are shot to the point that the cover falls off without the retaining screw in place.

Exactly, Jerry. I can push the cover on the case without threading it on. The threads are gone. The only thing that is holding the cover on is that screw!

[DanTreace]

I would degrease , clean , and then braze that crack in the steering case. Reinstall regrease, put a new cover on that would compensate wear on the center gear that the steering wheel attaches. Replacing the case requires drilling out the old rivets and then installing the replacement case with new rivets. That would be the next step if you could find out who can do your rivet work

You're assuming he can't install two small rivets, but also assuming he can braze the case back together safely? That case is toast. The threads are shot to the point that the cover falls off without the retaining screw in place.

Exactly, Jerry. I can push the cover on the case without threading it on. The threads are gone. The only thing that is holding the cover on is that screw!

As noted in the previous replies, do get the proper '25-'27 steering case for your '27 with balloon tires, the ratio of the cluster gears will be the later 5:1 and that steering case to use is the one with the wider groove for the stop pinion.

And find a good used one with good gear teeth too, you can then use the reproduction 5:1 gear sets, and change out your pinion posts on the steering shaft too. Makes for proper repair to use good used parts or new parts.

late and early case with groove .jpg (43.29 KiB) Viewed 8333 times

Note the condition of used cluster gears, some are so worn out with sharp teeth, you can't have good steering.

[Steve Jelf]

I don't often think of places like Lang's having used parts, but I guess I should.

Not only Lang's, but most of the parts dealers. In fact, Bob Bergstadt is now selling used and NOS only.

If you happen to shop for your parts at a swap meet, a complete or partially complete column may cost less than the case by itself. You will recognize the 26-27 column by its square firewall flange.

[John kuehn]

That’s a good point! I also forgot to mention Chaffins is selling used parts. He’s been advertising them for a while.

[Moxie26]

As of noon today, we found out the threads on the case are shot. Pictures did not show that, and some had assumed that the grease on the threads was blocking the condition of the threads. Having something in front of us to observe in person is a lot better than unclear pictures and comments, pro or con.... Cat Guy., Keep us informed of your progress,

[CatGuy]

As of noon today, we found out the threads on the case are shot. Pictures did not show that, and some had assumed that the grease on the threads was blocking the condition of the threads. Having something in front of us to observe in person is a lot better than unclear pictures and comments, pro or con.... Cat Guy., Keep us informed of your progress,

Will do! I think I'll have to find a better used column and rebuild it. Wonder how hard these are to remove and work on?

[Norman Kling]

If you can find the whole column with good gears, it would be easier. Otherwise the pins will need to be removed from the spark and throttle rods on the engine side of the firewall and the pitman arm removed from the lower end of the shaft. Then the lower bracket can be removed. The fasteners for the throttle rod and the spark rod removed. The steering wheel must be removed and then the steering rod. The diamond part can be worked out after the rivets are removed. Finally spread carefully the brass around the spark and throttle rods so the box can be removed. Then the reverse process to put everything together again. So if you can find a good column all fastened together it would be easier. But be sure to check the steering gear box before you buy it or you will need to do everything I said above in order to fix it.
Norm

[Allan]

I believe all steering columns are individually assembled. When the gearcases are fitted to the column tube, then the quadrant, column tube and gearcase are drilled as a unit and the rivets installed. If this is true, you are never going to find a used replacement which will line up at he rivet holes. The answer may be in a pair of oversized rivets and drilling oversized holes in the miss aligned components being refitted. But this may rsult in the drill wandering and a less than round hole.

I use the following procedure when rebuilding a column with a collection of miss matched parts.
First, weld up and dress the top two holes in the quadrant and column tube.
Then drill and thread the gearcase holes and fill them with threaded brass rod. Cut off and file to finish.
When all components are re-fitted you will have a starting hole on the underside of the column to guide your drill when drilling a new pair of holes.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Bruce Compton]

I've been playing with T's for over 50 years and have never seen a more worn out steering box than this before. Why would anyone waste 10 seconds thinking about any sort of repair? It's a '26-'27 column (not 1909) and there has to be hundreds if not thousands of decent used ones around (I must have seen 30-40 at Hershey 2022 and I wasn't looking for one). As well, after seeing this totally worn out steering box still in use, a great big red flag would go up about the condition of the rest of the steering system along with all other mechanical components of this car. Model T steering is just one step above go-cart steering to begin with so don't take chances or settle for any quick patch-up fix. Sorry if I offended anyone but this is not something to take lightly as your life and the lives of others are at risk with this sort of stuff on the road. Good for you for questioning it and getting help.

[CatGuy]

I've been playing with T's for over 50 years and have never seen a more worn out steering box than this before. Why would anyone waste 10 seconds thinking about any sort of repair? It's a '26-'27 column (not 1909) and there has to be hundreds if not thousands of decent used ones around (I must have seen 30-40 at Hershey 2022 and I wasn't looking for one). As well, after seeing this totally worn out steering box still in use, a great big red flag would go up about the condition of the rest of the steering system along with all other mechanical components of this car. Model T steering is just one step above go-cart steering to begin with so don't take chances or settle for any quick patch-up fix. Sorry if I offended anyone but this is not something to take lightly as your life and the lives of others are at risk with this sort of stuff on the road. Good for you for questioning it and getting help.

I need to be educated here on what makes this one bad before I buy a ‘new’ one. I need to know what I’m looking for. I know that the steering wheel wobbles and the threads are bad, but beyond that what are other possible red flags?

[Scott Rosenthal]

No good reason to repair this very common, heavily damaged part.
I would expect this replacement part to cost approximately 75.00. Fair amount of work in changing this out, but no where near the work required for the earlier (2) piece style.
Scott

[TXGOAT2]

The steering assembly you have shows clear evidence of extreme wear and abuse. The steering gear case is actually split apart. The condition of these parts may, or may not, reflect the condition of other mechanical parts of the car, but I would expect that it might, and I would inspect the entire chassis, engine, brakes, wheels, etc, before driving the car. You're dealing with a century old car. Some people will drive a car with steering issues until something breaks, while spending time and money on cosmetics or engine issues. Your car may be in good condition overall, but the steering box certainly isn't!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I've been playing with T's for over 50 years and have never seen a more worn out steering box than this before. Why would anyone waste 10 seconds thinking about any sort of repair? It's a '26-'27 column (not 1909) and there has to be hundreds if not thousands of decent used ones around (I must have seen 30-40 at Hershey 2022 and I wasn't looking for one). As well, after seeing this totally worn out steering box still in use, a great big red flag would go up about the condition of the rest of the steering system along with all other mechanical components of this car. Model T steering is just one step above go-cart steering to begin with so don't take chances or settle for any quick patch-up fix. Sorry if I offended anyone but this is not something to take lightly as your life and the lives of others are at risk with this sort of stuff on the road. Good for you for questioning it and getting help.

I need to be educated here on what makes this one bad before I buy a ‘new’ one. I need to know what I’m looking for. I know that the steering wheel wobbles and the threads are bad, but beyond that what are other possible red flags?

I thought we've covered that fairly well... Cracked. Worn out threads. Unsafe. What else is left to say?

[CatGuy]

I've been playing with T's for over 50 years and have never seen a more worn out steering box than this before. Why would anyone waste 10 seconds thinking about any sort of repair? It's a '26-'27 column (not 1909) and there has to be hundreds if not thousands of decent used ones around (I must have seen 30-40 at Hershey 2022 and I wasn't looking for one). As well, after seeing this totally worn out steering box still in use, a great big red flag would go up about the condition of the rest of the steering system along with all other mechanical components of this car. Model T steering is just one step above go-cart steering to begin with so don't take chances or settle for any quick patch-up fix. Sorry if I offended anyone but this is not something to take lightly as your life and the lives of others are at risk with this sort of stuff on the road. Good for you for questioning it and getting help.

I need to be educated here on what makes this one bad before I buy a ‘new’ one. I need to know what I’m looking for. I know that the steering wheel wobbles and the threads are bad, but beyond that what are other possible red flags?

I thought we've covered that fairly well... Cracked. Worn out threads. Unsafe. What else is left to say?

Just wanted to make sure that there wasn’t something else like the gears being bad, are there spacers or bushings in the column that need replaced? I just have lots of questions. Sorry.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Just wanted to make sure that there wasn’t something else like the gears being bad, are there spacers or bushings in the column that need replaced? I just have lots of questions. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about. The gears do appear to be fairly well worn also. At this point, every piece needs to be inspected for wear. Also, the 3 pins that the gears roll on. Are they tight in the steering shaft? What is the condition of the steering box cap? Are its threads also very worn? How well does the steering wheel shaft fit in the cap? If you end up buying 3 new gears, you should also buy a new steering wheel shaft.

First however, see what you can come up with as a replacement for your gearbox. Maybe you'll end up with a complete replacement column that will also address any other issues.

[Norman Kling]

I would suspect that the pinion (the gear in the middle was being pushed very hard against the planetary gears(the three which rotate around it) into the ring gear (in the case) and pulling very hard on the steering wheel over the years caused the bronze to crack. The whole thing should be replaced with a better one. The big swap meet I was thinking about is in Chickasha Oklahoma in the spring. Someone who regularly attends it would know the date and location.
Norm

[John kuehn]

Yes.
Getting yourself a good replacement steering column is the way to go. I wouldn’t try to overthink what you need to repair the one you have. What you could is to plan to get another good column assembly and remove the one you have from your T.
Consider this a learning experience and removing the column you have, taking it apart to see any wear it has and etc will put you on the way to learning about a T.

If your replacement column has some wear you’ll know how to work on it since you would have already taken apart your old one to see what’s what.

[Bruce Compton]

Lots of good advice on this topic, but it still amazes me that anyone would suggest repairing this mess. This damage shown had to be incurred by driving this vehicle on the road, either by the current owner and/or by probably several previous owners, so if anyone of the previous drivers felt secure when driving this car on the road with steering this bad, I can only imagine that there may also be several other mechanical issues taken for granted as well....(brakes, tires, wheels, bearings, rear end thrust washers, spring shackles, lights etc.). I personally know some T owners that drive their cars with obvious problems that they accept by saying "that's the way all T's are supposed to run", or "they're 100 years old....what would you expect" . The brutal truth is that if you're involved in a collision with your T on the highway, you will be very lucky to just end up in the hospital. I recall watching a video where a new Chevy Cruise and a 1959 Chevy met corner to corner (head on) at 50 MPH. The Cruise driver (dummy) walked away and the '59 driver (dummy) died. Imagine his chances in a Model T.................

[Scott_Conger]

Bruce

I heartily agree with your position

given that Forum participants working on their cars, are a minute fraction of all "T" owners, and the fact that nearly every one of them bought their cars as "dogs", I think it is safe to say that the majority of these cars "in the wild" are extraordinarily unsafe. And if it's a nice car, just generally unsafe. They are almost all relegated to permanent residency in a barn or garage with only a minority of them seeing the light of day again. I've seen cars in which the steering wheel's greatest utility was something to grab on to, to keep from falling out. And the owners were delighted to be riding in a car just like "back in the day".

When I see "patch up and make do" advice regarding critical components, I ask myself if I am living in depression times and not in the midst of nearly unlimited supplies of good new and used parts. So many parts, in fact, that after a lifetime of collecting them, many owners are taking entire collections to the dump rather than gifting them to someone for the future. When I heard that a large portion of Model T Haven's collection went for scrap, I wondered how many father/son projects got out-bid at the auction where they were bought; how many memories weren't shared; how many cars didn't get restored...all so that part could be tossed on top of 100 others, safely stacked, waiting for the scrapper to clean up some years later.

Shipping on a good steering column will probably exceed the purchase price of the column, but the total bill will not exceed the price of a hospital bill or settlement of a lawsuit. Just simple economics.

[CatGuy]

Will only 26-27 steering columns work in my '26 Roadster or will other years? How do I tell these apart?

[John kuehn]

Since you have a 26 Roadster your steering column should have a rectangular mounting bracket.
All other earlier Model T steering columns have a round mounting bracket.

If you try to use an earlier one THEY WONT FIT to your firewall and it will make things more difficult for you.

The steering column mounting bracket is the one that mounts directly on the firewall.

If you going to a swap meet this is what you look for and the easiest way to tell the difference.

I would suggest you contact one the T parts suppliers and tell them you want a good steering column for your 26 Roadster. Start with Lang’s as they and the other suppliers will be able to help.

I would suggest you get the Ford service manual, part supplier parts catalogs and other T publications to see and learn the differences in the 26-27 T’s from earlier Model T’s. They can really help you.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

As John described, your steering column mounting flange should look like this...

26.jpg (21.45 KiB) Viewed 7837 times

[Dan Hatch]

First thing I would do is disassemble the column and see just what is needed. You may only need the case and tube. Get the Service Manual if you don’t have it. Shipping on tube and case will not be that high compared to a whole column.
I may have a good one. I can look but will take a little time. Let me know if you want me to.
Good luck with your project. Dan

[CatGuy]

As John described, your steering column mounting flange should look like this...

26.jpg

Thanks! I looked at mine again and it looks like that, as we'd expect. I'm checking around and will contact Lang's.

[CatGuy]

I’m still searching for a complete column, but I found this. Would it fit mine? It looks like it.

[John kuehn]

To see if it’s a 26-27 case you need to remove the steering wheel nut and take off the steering wheel. You cant tell from the outside as far as the gear case is concerned. The gears inside will be the determining factor along with the groove inside the case. Once the wheel is off remove the small screw that holds the cover in place and look at the gears and case groove. There are some comparison pictures on this thread that show the gear differences and the differences in the grooves in the bottom of the case.

[Bruce Compton]

That looks like a 15" or 16" wheel and '26-'27 were 17" diameter. You don't need to remove the steering wheel from the main shaft, just remove the locating screw and unscrew the cover. The 4:1ratio planetary gears are the same size as the drive gear and with the 5:1 ratio, the drive gear is smaller than the planetary gears. BTW, you should also check the "bushing" at the bottom of the column where the main shaft exits, as well as the support box (at the frame) for wear on the shaft and the bushing(s) if you're thinking of re-using your original column..

[Moxie26]

Looking at your pictures, and the markings on the steering case cover, I would say it has the 4 to 1 gearing.

[RajoRacer]

Steering gear covers are a "fit all" on any gear case - although the '26 - '27 5-1 cover has full knurling whereas the earlier cover appears partially knurled at the top as shown in the photos.

[Duey_C]

Scott, I might have what you need if you like to travel. I do not know the actual condition but have a square flange column in my work shop. I'm in central MN. No steering wheel and I don't recall if it has the pitman arm.
I do not know the value but if you drove up my hill in an old beater, I'd cut you a square deal.
No shipping, we'd both go broke.

[CatGuy]

If I find a good steering gear case, and it happens to be a slightly earlier one, can I just change out the gears? Would ‘26 gears work in a ‘25 and earlier case?

[speedytinc]

If I find a good steering gear case, and it happens to be a slightly earlier one, can I just change out the gears? Would ‘26 gears work in a ‘25 and earlier case?

They would work, but you need the later square mounting base to fit up properly in a late T.
If you are replacing just the upper case, maybe. The later cases (24-27?) That were made for the 5-1 steering gears have a longer internal stop slot.
You should be able to easily find a stripped 26-7 column at least. People take out the guts to install in earlier columns.I have a few myself, but shipping such a large, valueless piece would be expensive.
Look for past posting regarding gear case differences.

[Scott_Conger]

all that information regarding what is interchangeable with what, including differences in earlier vs later gear cases, is contained within this thread and has been either made clear in pictures or discussion and advice.

[Humblej]

Scott, dont mix and match steering column parts and years. There are a lot of complete and decent steering columns out there for sale, find the right one in the right condition and rebuild it.

[Bruce Compton]

Well said Scott. A lot of really experienced T guys on this very special site have taken time out of their lives to offer thoughtful advice,opinions, information, and pictures to help this fellow and after his last question, I'm wondering now if he has taken the time to read any of them................

[DHort]

Chickasha Swap Meet is March 17-18 in Oklahoma. Good chance you can fine stuff there.

Bob's in Rockford, IL is not far from you. Bob will walk you through the back and show you where stuff is. Lots of used parts.

[CatGuy]

Well said Scott. A lot of really experienced T guys on this very special site have taken time out of their lives to offer thoughtful advice,opinions, information, and pictures to help this fellow and after his last question, I'm wondering now if he has taken the time to read any of them................

Bruce,
I have read all the posts on here and am thankful for the information. Always am. I like to get all the info I can and research what I can. I might ask too many questions? It wasn’t clear to me today just how interchangeable the parts are. That was my latest question.

[CatGuy]

Chickasha Swap Meet is March 17-18 in Oklahoma. Good chance you can fine stuff there.

Bob's in Rockford, IL is not far from you. Bob will walk you through the back and show you where stuff is. Lots of used parts.

I’ve thought about the swap meet, but it is quite a ways away. I have called Bob and he has one. I might possibly go there, but it’s also a bit of a trip.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Well said Scott. A lot of really experienced T guys on this very special site have taken time out of their lives to offer thoughtful advice,opinions, information, and pictures to help this fellow and after his last question, I'm wondering now if he has taken the time to read any of them................

It seems simple to us, but for someone who's new to this, it's a lot to take in.

[CatGuy]

Well said Scott. A lot of really experienced T guys on this very special site have taken time out of their lives to offer thoughtful advice,opinions, information, and pictures to help this fellow and after his last question, I'm wondering now if he has taken the time to read any of them................

It seems simple to us, but for someone who's new to this, it's a lot to take in.

Jerry,
Thank you!

[Scott_Conger]

Personally, I cannot understand where confusion comes from if a few seconds is spent looking at Dan Treace's supplied photos... but for those who deal better with words rather than pictures, I submit the following (BOLD Font is likely the most pertinent to the topic):

Below is a list of changes to (just) the steering case. For every change in steering cases there often was a change in steering linkage geometry. All of the parts work as a system. Swapping one vintage part for a different vintage part can have unforeseen consequences.

Over the years the Forum has been littered with folks trying desperately to get their car to steer safely; spending many $$ and hours unraveling a grab-bag of mismatched parts installed by a series of previous owners which ultimately make the car all but undriveable at speeds over 5MPH.

So,

Can I just change gearing? Yes, if your pitch is consistent with FORD gear pitch (and FORD had 2 different gear pitches...which pitch is your replacement gearing?

Can I just change one gear case for another? If you understand what steering parameters the various changes affected and you safely adapt for mis-matched parts you just may be able to...or you can end up with a bucking bronco and simply write it off as "that's how they drove back in the day"

Of course there will always be those that look disparagingly at you, spit tobacco at your feet, and say "aw, hell, Pilgrim. Put on yer Big Boy Pants and just slap 'er ta-gether and jam in some grease and be done with it". It seems that I almost always end up with one of their cars in my shop, eventually. The puzzle of unraveling the wrong parts usually takes longer than doing the physical repair correctly.

From Ford Records:

(Factory blueprint dates, not the date of use)
12-26-07 Adopted 02-17-10 Change threads on tap for clamping screw from 6-32 to 6-32 “V.”
06-13-11 Added note on drawing to be tinned and sweated to T905A or B. (The steering case bushing)
11-10-11 Changed diameter of hole in bottom from 25/32” to .780-.781” ream. 05-21-12 Changed style of threads in tap for steering gear cover lock screw from 6-32 “V” to 6-32 ASME.
07-08-12 Changed the thickness of the bottom from 5/32 to 5/32-11/64” 02-14-13 We have specified that the countersink in rivet holes reach clear through to the bottom of the case, also that the angle to be 25 degrees. Our attention has been called to dimension specifying the diameter of rivet holes at the bottom to be .157 which is the diameter of a #22 drill, which undoubtedly will be used in drilling these holes before countersinking. 04-07-14 CHW (Wills) advised GVH (Howard) to change specifications on T904 (the steering gear case) from “Z” bronze to “X” bronze.
04-24-14 Changed diameter at top of gear teeth from 2.428” to 2.427-2.428.” 07-02-14 Changed depth of case on inside from 1-1/8” to 1.122 and 1.128” and diameter of pocket in bottom of cover from 2-1/8” to 2.122-2.124.”
07-24-14 Changed diameter of counterbore in the bottom for steering case bushing from 2.122-2.124 to 2.125-2.126.”
09-05-14 We have adopted this experimental design and will consider it as a change in the design of the old steering gear part. (Apparently this is the new style gear case, but there is no previous reference to this change.)
12-09-15 Changed style of thread from USS to USF.
07-14-16 This case differs from the regular only that it is made out of cast steel instead of “W” bronze, and is to be raven finished and black enameled.
07-14-16 Removed note which specified drawing to be experimental, and called for use on 1917 cars. Changed material from cast steel to “W” bronze. Removed note which called for raven finish and black enamel, and specified case to be finished black. Experimental drawings were issued under date of 7-14-16, so we will consider it as adopted that date. (It would appear that the steel case was either never made, or just experimental.) 09-09-16 Removed note which specified case to be finished black and called for Moodyize, and black enamel. This change is to take immediate effect. All cases on hand to be used up.
04-04-17 Specified this part for use on Model H truck, 1917. (Note the reference to Model “H.” Apparently the “TT” designation came later.)
05-22-17 Specified for use on all cars 1915-16-17, instead of 1917 only. (This part replaces T5029).
06-14-17 Brought drawing up to date by specifying this case to be nickel plated, instead of Moodyized and black enamel.
09-04-17 Specified for use on 1918 cars.
05-05-19 Specified this part to be zinc plated all over, and buffed as shown in the drawing, instead of nickel plated.
10-17-19 Changed the pitch of gear teeth on the above part from 14 to 14-18 with 20 degree pressure angle. This change is made to reduce friction between gears and is to take effect as soon as the change can be made without holding up production. The parts on hand to be balanced and used up. Note: Owing to the wear on these parts when in use it will be necessary to hold the present design, that is, parts having straight 14 pitch teeth for repairs.
11-04-20 Brought drawings up to date by changing pitch diameter from 2.571” to 2.571 ± .003.”
12-22-20 This part is no longer required for repairs, and has therefore been marked obsolete.
10-28-21 Added 3/32” to under side of cup, added slot for stop pin in bottom. Brought drawing up to date by specifying outside of cup to be machined and nickel plated. Changed distance between lugs which hold throttle and lead rods from 21/64” to 21/64-11/32”.
02-23-22 Changed angle between centerline of case and the center of 13/64” radius at ends of slot for stop pin from 45 degrees to 51 degrees.
11-24-22 Removed 2-59/64” diameter relief 3/32” long from upper part of threads, and changed width of 45 degree chamfer at top of case from 1/32” to 3/32”.
01-15-23 Changed method of specifying material from “W” brass to #2 Red Bronze.
05-27-24 Changed angle between centerline and ends of stop slot from 51 degrees to 60 degrees.
09-27-24 Changed width of stop slot from 13/32” to 15/32.” This changes radius for centerline of slot from .857” to .821” and for ends from 13/64” to 15/64.” Changed angle between centerline and right hand end of slot from 60 degrees to 65 degrees. Specified for 1925.
10-07-25 Changed angle between centerline and ends of stop slot from 60 to 62 degrees on left side and 55 to 67 degrees on right side. No further changes in the design were made