1909 Model T Timer Source

[dr1960]

Is anyone reproducing the timers for the early Model T's like in the picture?

277247.jpg (65.25 KiB) Viewed 3320 times

[Wayne Sheldon]

Well, I am not the best person to answer this. I do know that reproductions of these were made for several years, however I believe the last ones produced were a fair number of years ago. Mostly what are available now I think are some of the reproductions that people bought and kept but did not use or for one reason or another stopped using. I notice reproductions offered for sale in our classifieds from time to time. And, occasionally, even an original has shown up for sale.
There was some talk a couple years ago of getting a few more made, however I don't think that has happened yet.

You should consider posting this on the EFR forum also! Their focus includes the earliest model Ts as well as the pre-T letter cars.

https://earlyfordregistry.com/phpBB3/

[dr1960]

Thanks Wayne, I appreciate the information. I'll check out EFR. As a side question, i think i understand that to use a timer that is available today, you have to change the timer cover because there is no way to put in a modern oil seal. Can you or anyone confirm that? If something else is available that would work i'm open to suggestions.

-David

[Kerry]

David, that's correct, you need a cover from about the mid teens on, I can't remember the year of change but early covers that take the later timer would not take the modern cam seal without machining to do so.

[Alan Long]

I’m one of those guys that bought the early two piece Timer (reproduction ) and the timing cover to suit it and the Coil spring
Early Fan belt tensioner years ago. Never did fit them as I feel it’s a reliability back step. Also have a Kingston 5 Ball, Metzger Windscreen frame and a early front axle to suit the one piece spindles. Not sure what to do with these parts now. Maybe consider my options once I’m out of Hospital
Alan In Western Australia

[Wayne Sheldon]

Alan L, I am saddened to hear that you are in the hospital! I do hope it isn't serious.

As I understand it, not really sure on all this, it isn't so much the oil seal or lack thereof. Later Ts are often run without the oil seal. The timer's need for oil and location is such that the amount of oil passing by the cover is such that the "leakage" isn't really a problem. The main problem is that the early version of the timer is held on actually by the camshaft itself, and run centered by its own bushings etcetera. The big issue with using a later timer is that there is no "groove" or circle to hold the timer in place and centered on the camshaft. Without the later (late 1912 or later) cover, there simply is no way to hold the timer in place to function as it needs to.

I have heard that one of the reasons that remaining unused early timer reproductions keep crawling out of the woodwork is that a lot of owners of 1909 through 1911 Ts had switched to later covers and timers back when the early timers were really hard to get, and bought the reproduction ones while they could in case they decided to switch their car back to correct later. Now, many of those owners have aged out. And having never switched their cars, the car and the early two-piece timer they bought have since been separated. Now, many new owners of those cars have found other early style timers and switched over the cars while the timers separately find their way back into the market place through hobbyist estate sales.

David R, I see that you have a 1915 runabout (I have one also)! Are you also working on a 1909? I sure would like to have a really early model T or a pre-T. I doubt that can ever happen for me at this point. But it doesn't stop me from looking at or liking them!

[RGould1910]

Two piece timers are installed with a felt sandwiched between the timer body and the front cover. That stops oil leaks coming from the outside. If the clearances are close when the timer is mounted on the nut, ther is little oil leakage coming into the rotor area. I've run these timers for years and find them reliable and trouble free. Never had an oil leakage problem.

[KimDobbins]

These timers were made by Howard Caccia(spelling?) in San Luis Obispo, CA. Several have attempted to buy the tooling from his family over the years, but as far as I know they had no interest in selling. To bad, Howard made several nice products. Like Richard, I've had no problems with the early brass timers.

[Russ T Fender]

I ran an early timer on my '10 for years until it started giving me trouble. I switched the cover to take the later timers and never looked back. If someone would reproduce the early timers I would gladly go back but right now my old worn out timer and timing cover are collecting dust on the shelf. I can't understand why someone with the tooling to reproduce these won't either do it or let someone else take over the project. That just doesn't make any sense to me! But, then again, that's just one of many things that don't make sense to me these days. Must be getting old!

[RGould1910]

I've rebuilt them by machining a new ring from delrin and contacts from a round bar. I thought about buying a new later timer from Langs and using the ring and contacts if the measurements are right. On the ones I've rebuilt, the tlmer bodies were usually good. However I found a couple of the rear snouts worn and needed to be bushed. The back wall is very thin and shouldn't be machined without adding metal.

[dr1960]

Appreciate all the input. Wayne Sheldon, i am working on tuning up this 1909 for a new friend. It is a beautiful car and just needs the tune up. engine was rebuilt a few years ago, along with the carb. i put in a set of freshly rebuilt coils. i need to inspect the timer to see if everything looks good. i had just never seen one that early and was afraid to remove the cover for fear of what might jump out at me! now i know the answer is "nothing should". the timer rod is a sloppy mess and needs work. i can move the lever about a quarter of the quadrant before it moves the timer! once the timer is cleaned up, the rod working correctly, and timing adjusted, it should be good to go.

-David

[Scott Rosenthal]

Can someone here post dimensions for the steel Flat Washer please. Thx.

[RGould1910]

Shaped like a donut. OD 1.490", ID .575", .015" thickness. Mine is from Howard Caccia.

[Scott Rosenthal]

Many thanks Richard. No idea who made mine...it came to me without the washer. I figure better to have it than not.

[JTT3]

Richard I take it that it goes on the crankshaft and then the rotor goes on, then the pin, pin retainer & nut correct? From a cautionary approach if the rotor snugs up to the washer wouldn’t it wear the housing if it rotates with the cam or worst possibly cut the cam shaft? Just asking I don’t have one on mine either. I can see where it would help to keeps the brass/bronze rotor from galling the housing. Thanks in advance for the information. Best John

[RGould1910]

Whether you use the washer or not the back of the rotor is applying some pressure on either the back wall or the washer As you know it's important to ighten the nut against the rotor body enuf to keep it from wobbling but not so much as there is much friction. The idea of the washer is that the rotor turns against the washer which stays put. You could put a dab of glue to keep it in place but I never have. Better the rotor wears out than the thin back wall. I havent seen wear on the cam from the washer myself.

[KimDobbins]

From the November 1908 Ford parts book.