John Brown Model 19 Headlight Lens Retainers

[Distagon2]

I am about to embark on finishing my 1912 John Brown Model 19 brass headlamps. Since they were apart when I got them I want to be sure I am assembling them correctly. A couple of questions:

1. Is the "wire" retainer as shown in the pictures correct for retaining the headlight lens? I have a few of different design so thought I would ask you folks who know the answer.
2. Was some kind of gasket used on the headlight lens? I disassembled a later Model 16 Brown headlamp that still had the lens in it (and a nice reflector!). I couldn't tell for sure but it appeared there was some sort of thin paper gasket around the edges of the lens that had turned to dust. Or I suppose it could have just been dust since it had been in there for 110 years. What, if anything, do you guys use?

Thanks for your help. I am new to the brass world!

[George House]

No. That wire ‘spring’ is used on the electric 15-27 lens retainer. I’ll try and get out to the barn after the Super Bowl and take a picture of the much heavier cold rolled lens retainer you need.

[RajoRacer]

I respectfully disagree George - that one pictured IS NOT a '15 - '27 retainer.

[George House]

Here is a picture of the steel lens retainer you’ll need. Its about 1/4” diameter and maybe hard to discern on that glass top table. It fits in a groove of the brass rim keeping the glass immovable. Our Forum Friend John Tannehill is an expert on Ford carbide headlamps. Maybe he’ll jump in.

[RajoRacer]

Courtesy of Lang's - the electric retainer spring is quite smaller in diameter than the gas lamps & hooks together - I have a '14 with JNO Brown lamps - most gas lamp lens retainers were exclusive to each brand of lamp.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/6586X.aspx

[Distagon2]

Thanks for the pictures, George. I am familiar with the wire retainer as I have a 26 Coupe. The picture I included of the retainer in my original post is much heaver construction, more of along the lines of a rod that was bent and formed. That one came out of a Brown Model 19 headlight, although I have no idea if it was original. I also have the type as you show in your picture of the lamp on the glass table so will run with those.

Any thoughts on whether or not there was some kind of gasketing material used on the glass?

[Darren J Wallace]

I have a very original set on my early ‘13 I can take pics of if needed.

[RajoRacer]

I failed to add that our '14 lamps are Brown 666.

[JTT3]

That lens retainer ring you have is for an E&J lamp the JB does not have the indent like that around the circumference but they do at the ends but not the v shape but closer to an S. A narrow gasket (my word) was used as a cushion between the glass and ring. Now days finding the correct thickness of the glass lens is sometimes difficult so some have used a thicker gasket to make up the difference. Steve I know you meant JB model 16’s but accidentally put the brass E&J 666 number, ha do it all the time. Now the early lamps actually had solder floated around the lens & that my friends it an art. Best John

[RajoRacer]

Yes, I sure did John ! Thanks for the "knock-knock" - who's there ?

[Distagon2]

Darren J Wallace, I would welcome some pictures of your 1913 headlights. I understand my lamps are different, but I am in the process of learning how these lamps were assembled and would find the information useful.