More Ruckstell info

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Dropacent
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More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Mon May 06, 2019 4:52 pm

Thought I’d start a new thread with some Ruckstell questions. I’ve only done a couple over the years and the last one was a complete NOS original Ruckstell kit that had been squirreled away since made. That one was pretty easy.( still , lots of work !) I’ve got about 3 years on it now and I always wished I would have installed some zerk fittings on the shift lock, like Stan Howe originally suggested. I pulled it out and sure enough, it was dry as a bone inside. It was well greased when originally installed. I went one step farther and installed 3, which is probably overkill, but the shift locks I’ve purchased lately have a lot of wear showing on the shaft.
7765C513-6EB8-47AA-818A-8B1E924D734E.jpeg
I have a couple friends that are currently doing a Ruckstell rebuild right now. I talked to him this morning about an issue with the sliding gear on his unit. It appeared to the eye to be in excellent, almost unused condition, but would not slide easily from one range to the next. He said the gear teeth were not in line, And thought perhaps this one was twisted. I thought that too was probably the issue, as I figured when these were Hobbed out, they were probably in line. I dug out three gears here and they make more questi9ns now than answers. All are original, one is NOS , one is very nice original and the last one is shot. 2 have the gear teeth in line, and the 3rd, the teeth are offset a half tooth.
AE06902E-0E45-40E5-B7EB-ED3962186601.jpeg
5C349A15-C6A2-4FDE-B279-55D598C73910.jpeg
D79868D6-5B75-42F7-AA56-8EF923E70CEA.jpeg
. The one marked NFG is what they start look8ng like before you head into a neutral situation. As you know, a Ruckstell in good operating condition will not have a nuetral. I’d love to hear thoughts on these issues.


Original Smith
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Original Smith » Mon May 06, 2019 9:36 pm

I suppose the zerk's will help, but they look like shit! I have Ruckstell's in every T I own, and have never had a problem. The main problem is the original fiber thrust washers are not available, and I refuse to use those steel shims that are currently offered. What is wrong with doing things the way they are supposed to be? There are far to many people here is this club that think they know more than the manufacturer!


Randall strickland
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Randall strickland » Mon May 06, 2019 10:32 pm

Nice job Tim,I'm doing mine the same way! I've got three and all are worn out!


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Dropacent
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Tue May 07, 2019 12:31 pm

Thanks Randall , I’m actually going to redo it today, and will use much smaller fittings. I’ll post a picture later. I have this one I’m going to send to Larry.
B5C39C0B-FFC9-4BFC-BAF0-FE15B7736AB7.jpeg
I’ll be sure to get enough grease where I want it, and it may just make Larry’s head explode, too.
He brings up a great point re/ the fiber washer. For some reason it’s the only original part that isn’t reproduced. I agree with him that a correct fiber washer should be used. The MTFCA Ruckstell repair booklet shows to use a steel washer in that place. I agree with Larry that’s a poor choice, and I also believe it’s bad advice from a rebuild document. Any Ruckstell that has any machining cleanup done will need a correct spacer at that point. If you are starting with new or NOS parts, you may get away with the thickness of a steel washer, but the ID is all wrong. Any slop or wear in that area, and you have a slinging , hardened steel washer revolving inside that could cut an axle in half, eventually. Perhaps the fiber washer isn’t offered because of the variation of thickness required, perhaps because the original type fiber material is so hard to find. I was able to purchase some original red fiber from Gene Krystoffy, of alphabet ford transmission fame, and some thicker stuff that Richard Gould Found overseas.


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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue May 07, 2019 2:22 pm

Tim

this last version looks much better than the one with only 3 zerks. Perhaps it would be even better with 13 grease cups. At least it would be more original than these modern fittings.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Dropacent
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Tue May 07, 2019 6:30 pm

Here’s another try. Maybe with a couple of dabs of black paint, this may even satisfy a Ruckstell purist. Anyhew, my shift lock will never wear out now, which is what I’m after.
CBAA665C-3EE8-4AF0-8AEA-1E612CB48B3B.jpeg

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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue May 07, 2019 6:41 pm

I wonder if the half a tooth off one or even off a little would really be an issue, the plate inside is turning with the inner assembly so should self align. You aren't pulling both sets of teeth all the way out anyway except when installing it.
You could use the pin type alimites if you are worried what others think. I would give the idea a thumbs up :idea:
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Wreckrod » Tue May 07, 2019 8:25 pm

I use a piece of brass as the thrust washer between the axles. It’s relatively easy to size correctly and it’ll wear before wearing on anything else (along with wearing more slowly than fiber).

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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Ruxstel24 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:51 pm

Maybe a good place to mention axle lube for a Ruckstell.
I recall reading NOT to use 600W, and several types mentioned. Old time hypoid mineral oil base, was recommended.
I recently changed the fluid in mine, sure appeared to be 600W. I would not be surprised if it had been in there for 50 years !! Pulled it out with a suction gun (that was a slow process). Got out about a half quart...filled with 85W-140 Amale.
I put 30-40 miles on it and did it again and probably will once more. Nasty, but no problems.


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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by YellowTRacer » Wed May 08, 2019 6:58 pm

Guys, this is just FYI. i've been running the same Ruckstell in my race car Old #4 for 51 years. I like the single grease fitting idea but have to agree, it's a little overkill. I shift my Ruckstell a lot and after all this time the shifter rod is a little loose in the housing and it still shifts fine. When working on or altering an antique car I always put myself in the era and use the stuff that was available at the time period that the car represents, so therefore the grease fitting would be a cup or an Alemite fitting. Alemites came out in the mid/late teens. I started out using 90/140 gear lube available at the local auto supply. At some point I contemplated using the 600 that was available from the antique part suppliers but it looked so thick that I was afraid that all the internal parts wouldn't get lubricated properly and so I stayed with the 90/140. About 20 or so years ago someone directed me to a local company called Western Oil Supply. I talked to the rep. there and he said that the current 90/140 and others of lighter weight do eat into bronze a bit. And that he could provide Steam Cylinder oil/600W in 5 gallon containers. I've been using it ever since. I had noticed over the years in my Muncie transmission grease, bronze coloration, and I haven't seen it since using the 600/Steam Cylinder Oil. In 51 years I replaced a couple of parts one time about 30 years ago and I don't remember which ones. I replaced the worn parts with lesser worn used parts that I had in my collection of stuff. I've broken a couple of axles over the years and when I pull the Ruckstell apart to replace an axle nothing looks worn enough to need replacing. And again,...I shift it a lot.

Ed aka #4


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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed May 08, 2019 7:33 pm

Ed

good info and great perspective from a serious user!

thanks!
Scott Conger

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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Wed May 08, 2019 9:46 pm

Thanks for all the comments, and was really hoping to get that kind of info from long time users. It’s likely been on the forum in the past, but it’s been awhile. I should mention I work really hard to be period correct. My Merc speedster has pin alemite fittings on everything for that reason. Before the purists explode, I can mentally get away with that on a speedster. ( I personally don’t like using OR filling a pin alemite gun, perhaps there are some tricks we need to hear about )
The vehicle this modified shift lock is for is well restored mechanically and every dope cup hides the alemite fitting inside the cap. I really wasn’t thinking , because of the placement of these so hidden, and only that I would be using a modern grease gun when lubing the chassis. So, point taken, Ed.
I ran out of time today, but will post a picture and dimensions of the large fiber washer talked about above. I’d love to hear from long time users and rebuilders of this controversial item, and what other people are using.


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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Original Smith » Thu May 09, 2019 10:36 am

I like Ed Archers comment, but am going to go one step further. I've got the same Ruckstell in the same car I put it in over 50 years ago, and have never had a problem. I use it when the need arises, and that's all. I use straight SAE 140. Also I've not added any additional grease fittings. Mr. Ruckstell made a good product, and I'm happy to have it in my cars. Oh, BTW, the car has over 50,000 on it.


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Dropacent
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Thu May 09, 2019 1:36 pm

Thanks for the continued conversation. As I said , i’ve only done a couple of Ruckstells and do not plan any more, BUT I do have 3 friends now ,that I know of, currently rebuilding one. I have handled many more parts through the years, as the two fellows above stating their longevity, I’ve been buying and selling parts for 50 years now. Almost every shift lock I’ve ever had has shown extreme wear. They are actually a lot of work to rebush, too. I think with the more modern clinging lubricants, the chance of any splash lubrication is actually less than back in the old days. If you look back to my first post, I’ve been running my latest in my hack for several years now. Less than 300 miles. Taking the shift lock off confirmed that there was no lubrication there. I had greased it good when installed, but dry as a bone now. That is what caused me to remember Stan Howe, who has probably rebuilt more of these than anyone alive, suggested installing a grease fitting in this area. I wasn’t asking permission of anyone, and if God is a model T purist, I’ll just have to take my chances.
Shown below is an early shift lock. It seems Herr Glover recognized the need for a lubrication at this point also, and even though primitive, an extra hole here ( I’m pointing to it )allows lubrication ( and dirt,dust,rain, yuck) to do some good. AND, don’t forget, he continued to improve his product.
392DE8E0-114F-4D89-8801-9D2A93D7DF7B.jpeg


Topic author
Dropacent
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Re: More Ruckstell info

Post by Dropacent » Thu May 09, 2019 1:50 pm

OK, this is the point Larry Smith ( the old curmudgeon) brought up. The MTFCA rebuild manual states to install a steel ford washer at that point inside the Ruckstell differential. A post above mentioned the fiber disc between the axles. Yes, they have come out with a bronze disc, which I’m my opinion is a good idea. I don’t like the quality of the new fiber material. The washer in question is on one side of the inside differential.
9CD40826-586B-4833-8452-CB976F73E857.jpeg
........I believe on the parts sheet it’s labeled P-171-A. Still confusing to me why a fiber washer would be pinned there. I let them float, as it’s not going anywhere.
...........shown next is the manual recommended Ford washer, next in line is a washer that came to me with a bunch of Ruckstell parts.....it’s old red fiber, but I did not take it out of an axle. So, just a guess on my part. The third example is what I’ve used on my two rebuilds. It is 100+ year old material, red fiber and tougher than the Hobs of Hell ! I’ve taken this same material out of original model NRS , F transmissions. Ford even used it , segmented, on the early transmission bands.
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so, now hoping we can hear from the more experienced among us what they think about this washer issue. I could be wrong, but believe it’s the only original Ruckstell part not being offered. Frankly, it scares me a bit to use a hardened steel washer with the wrong ID at this point, so I’m all ears, now.

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