Originality vs Cost vs Downgrade

[Alan Long]

Gents.
I’m curious what the general thoughts are about investing extra money into our T’s to get them truely period correct?
Would you for example change the 1912 style front Axle and Spindles back to the correct 09/10 one piece style for a (March 1910) Car?
Other examples are swapping to a Kingston 5 Ball Carburettor and the earlier Pigs Head.

I’ve always had the view that if Ford changed an item it was due to it being cheaper, better or Both.

Our T’s Are all running well and used regularly but is investing money into a T that will eventually be unused, parked in a Museum somewhere sensible? Who would care about the correct angle air pipe 5 Ball compared to a simple Straight thru
trouble free NH Holley?
More to the point who would know?
Obviously the current owner would know that they have done the very best to get the vehicle as correct
as possible while under his custodianship / while these parts are still floating around.
The value of the T itself will surely depreciate over the next decade representing a bad investment but who can put a price
on the enjoyment we now have (even with a NH)
Alan In Western Australia

[Distagon2]

I guess it depends on the individual and why they are even messing with these old relics. I am re-restoring a 1912 brass car and authenticity is of paramount importance to me. This can come at a cost, even beyond what I will ever get out of the car from a sales point of view. However, a brass car is a thing of beauty to me and authenticity is important to me. I will likely not drive the car much at all. Yes, this old girl will probably be a trailer queen. Kind of like my full-scale model kit to fuss and fret over.

However, there are any number of Model T's out there that have "upgrades" and later parts and people are having a ball with them. So my answer to the question is "it depends on why you have the car and what satisfaction you want out of it."

[Humblej]

By all means, originality over cost and performance, in general, particularly for those things that show and define a year. However, having just rebuilt a rear end I am all for the modern bronze thrust bearings and neoprene seals. I use modern engine oil, gas, and antifreeze too. Restoring a T to as it left the factory condition is a worthy goal. The three model T's that will command the most attention at a car show: 1) restored to factory new; 2) unrestored original condition; 3) a rare year/body style in any condition. we will be one of many owners of these cars, and in most cases not the last owner, like many things in life, we have some responsibility as to what we leave behind for our kids and future generations.

[TXGOAT2]

I would strive for originality with an intact or mostly intact early car. For a car to be driven, pick a later, more common car, or a late brass era car that is already a mix & match.

[speedytinc]

Since you are really driving them, I am ok going with later parts if I dont have the correct parts on the car to begin with.
If I change out one of those rare year specific parts, I keep them for a later correct conversion by me or the next caretaker.
If I had a T with some Incorrect pieces, I take my time collecting the correct parts. (you can wait for a deal to come along)
If I have or built a fake-o-copy, I dont care about collecting "correct" parts. Its a bitsa driver.
My view FWIW.

[TXGOAT2]

In the case of mid-to-late production Model Ts, it's still possible to assemble a daily driver from original and repo parts and operate and maintain it at moderate cost, as cost$ go these days. The same is true of the Model A.

[John Codman]

If the car is going to be driven regularly I'd go with parts that improve on the original, but I would also save the original parts for the eventuality that a future owner wants the car to be of concourse condition. I replaced the fan pulley on my T with a modern, sealed-ball-bearing aluminum unit because I hated the original slinging grease all over the engine compartment. I'll happily give any new owner the original parts if he/she wants them.

[John kuehn]

Example: having an 100% original 2 lever 1909 Model T and having over $50.000 or more invested. Would you want to drive it or take it to car shows and your car to be known as a trailer queen. That’s OK and the owners enjoy having an original scarce car.
To each his own but for me I would be satisfied with a good driving 14-16 T that looks good and wouldn’t be afraid of getting it dirty. The majority of T’s are 80-95 % correct and those are the ones that are driven fairy often. For me that’s OK not to be a perfectionist.

[TXGOAT2]

If you have the money, or money and skills, it is possible today to build a fairly accurate early T from mostly repro parts. New sheet metal, new radiator, new lights and accessories, new upholstery, wiring, mechanical internals, body, etc. It would be expensive, but it could be very accurate in function and appearance. It would NOT be original. You could drive it at will and maintain it without using up or compromising something that could not be replaced.

[TRDxB2]

Investing - "expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result " looking at material result then.
You started out mentioning just 3 items - the correct 09/10 one piece style front Axle and Spindles (March 1910) Car; a Kingston 5 Ball Carburetor and the earlier Pigs Head.
Answers to your Questions:
-Does investing money into a T that will eventually be unused, parked in a Museum somewhere sensible?
Ans: Only if the museum makes mention of your name on the description of the car as having been restored as it (being period correct or as it came off the assembly line) by you. Like you say, in the future who would know the difference and your not going to care what they think anyway.
-Are there more items necessary to achieve your goal and can you find them? Can they be made serviceable?
-What's the net difference in the price of what you can sell what you have for what you need to get - including shipping?
Ans: If you start to do the math you can't afford it.

[Norman Kling]

I drive my cars and only show them at shows with no entry cost and no judging. I don't drive every day, but usually at least once a month. I like to keep everything which shows, either original or replacement of the original part. Such as Anderson timer or New day timer. It is still a timer and looks authentic. I don't like obvious changes like Alternator, or Distributor. I don't use the original Champion plugs, but I use the plugs available from our vendors. Internal parts such as SKAT crank or Stipe camshafts are fine. The engine might not even be original for the year, but it is a Model T block. But I can drive my cars any time I want and to most people they look great. Some very particular people can tell which parts are not correct for the year or whether they are original T parts.
If I had a very rare or unusual model, I would be much more picky about trying to find or restore the correct parts for that particular car.
So I guess it depends on the owner and how much he/she wants to spend on it.
Norm

[ModelT46]

A museum auto should be correct in all possible details. The Warp Museum is full of antique cars, perhaps 300. Somew are correct, some are way off base. People view these autos as a good mrepresentive of what they are listed at. Many are not, so people go away thinking that is what the car was and is and it is not.

[Steve Jelf]

How to approach the issue of originality depends on the owner's goal. If the goal is to have a prize-worthy show car, the road to that goal is paved with correct parts. If the goal is the satisfaction of achieving originality without regard to shows, the road is the same. If the goal is to drive a lot, some later or aftermarket parts may serve. If the goal is an occasional drive to the ice cream shop or an annual parade, that may be met by making no changes at all.

[Allan]

I built my 1912 Haighs chocolates van by collecting period correct parts. When it first hit the road in 1995, it still had some wrong model bits that I knew were not correct, but is was and is a real user. Since then, I have fitted a correct steering drag link, found a better alloy inlet manifold, fitted a matching set of manifold clamps, replaced a reproduction brass steering spider with a Dodge Brothers original, etc. I enjoy the challenge of finding parts and keeping the car in as original as possible condition. But, I am in no hurry to get rid of my Hayes wire wheels in favour of the correct wooden non-demountables!

Allan from down under.

[FreighTer Jim]

Alan,

How deep are your pockets ?


FJ

[Burger in Spokane]

So many old car people consider "original" to be original to the time
it was made. I see "original" as original to the first life of said vehicle,
complete with period repairs, bumps, and warts. My goal is a vehicle
that presents as a decently kept 10-15 year old car, not a showroom
new example. I specifically WANT it not to be perfect. My attraction
is a down-on-the-farm "Americana" vibe, that might cause a person to
think they momentarily stepped into a time warp, complete with dirt,
paint chips, and less-than-perfect factory presentation. I am not interested
in worrying about scratching expensive paint jobs or parts.

[Dave Sullivan]

HA,HA, Burger said "vibe". Dave in Bellingham

[Kaiser]

Ah i missed a good discussion on this
Let's asume for the sake of the discussion that our goal would be to improve our antique cars to make them safer, more comfortable and more reliable, in itself not unreasonable goals.
If so, would it not be smarter to make use of more than a hundred years of engineers working on those goals and buy ourselves a brand new modern car instead ?
Or do we like these antiques for what they were and are, as a way to relive a bit of history and days gone by forever ?
Of course it is your car and you should do with it whatever you think it needs.
Have fun messing with your T !

[TXGOAT2]

Early Model Ts are very rare, and early Ts with little or no modification are extremely rare. The later models are more widely available, with a few being near-original, and others available in about every condition possible.