Hand Windshield Wiper for 1924 Fordor

[24TFORDOR]

Hi All,

I'm looking for a manual windshield wiper for my 1924 Model T Fordor. There are three holes above the glass and I'm not clear what's supposed to go into each hole or where to source a proper wiper assembly. If anyone has any reference pictures of a 1924 closed car with an original or nice aftermarket hand wiper correctly installed, I would appreciate it. I searched the Internet and found the 7801LSS wiper assembly on Lang's, but it says the shaft has to be lengthened and I'm not adept at welding or fabrication. Would like to install a nice period-correct appearing wiper in the car. What are my options to fill these empty windshield frame holes?

Thanks,
Jeremy

[jiminbartow]

Your T used a hand operated wiper that needed only one hole directly in front of the driver. The other two holes are not needed and can be filled in. There may have been, at one time, a wiper operated by a vacuum motor. Hand operated wipers are a pain to use. Luckily, Your T has a sunvisor (rainvisor) that really helps to keep rain off the windshield so you can spend your time wiping condensation from the windshield inside the car. Jim Patrick

[24TFORDOR]

Thanks Jim, then I’ll install a new hand crank wiper using the hole closest to the driver’s window if I can find one that fits my Fordor. What are T owners filling the extra holes with? Perhaps, some JB Weld and then sanded down smooth and painted black?

Still looking for reference pictures of hand mirror correctly installed on a 24 or similar year Fordor closed car. I might order that hand wiper from Lang’s and try to make it work somehow. I only want the wiper for the look and as a conversation piece, I’m not too concerned with functionality and don’t plan to drive this car in thr rain

[Allan]

Jeremy, the scratches in the glass indicate that the larger hole between the two was where the wiper was fitted.

Allan from down under.

[greasemonkey100]

I also have a fordor and always wondered with the wiper installed is there another piece that holds it up when not in use? Was there something mounted in one of the other holes to secure it from hanging straight down when not in use?

[greasemonkey100]

Also, how can you tilt the top piece of windshield out with the wiper installed? Will the wiper get in the way of the glass moving?

[24TFORDOR]

Great questions and I’d like to know the answers as well!

How does one go about extending the shaft on the wiper that Langs sells to make it work on a closed car? Has anyone done this and is there a write up or pictures anywhere? Otherwise, if someone has a nice period correct looking hand wiper that fits my Fordor they want to sell, send me a message with details and price

[jiminbartow]

Yes. JB Weld, Bondo putty, or Aluminum Devcon putty will work fine to fill the holes. My Fordor had a steel sleeve the length of the shaft through the hole that was flush with the exterior frame surface, with the extra length protruding into the cab. If your wiper hole was above the windshield frame hinge, through the headliner, there would be a problem because the wiper, being above the hinge, would prevent you from opening the upper frame, but the hinge of your windshield is above the wiper hole which means the wiper hole goes through the windshield frame, which when the upper windshield frame is tilted out, the wiper will tilt out with it. No problem at all. Jim Patrick

PS. Jeff, being spring loaded by means of a flattened upper vertical wiper shaft (see closeup photo), it stays tight against the windshield so it stays up out of the way until the next rain, when you use it, but for it to work, it must be tight and there can be no slack. You may want to call Lang’s and ask them if they have the sleeve, or whether or not they offer the horizontal wiper shaft in a variety of lengths.

F15C391E-F40D-4F38-B29C-A5859F669B55.jpeg (11.54 KiB) Viewed 5174 times

[RajoRacer]

It appears there was an accessory wiper, most likely vacuum (maybe electric if some wiring was present) mounted at the 2 outboard holes & which usually had a "manual" knob or lever to activate the wiper from the inside. As Allan eluded to the larger hole was where the wiper shaft went through due to the glass scratches showing.

[jiminbartow]

The hole, being larger, the horizontal wiper shaft will most likely require the sleeve (adapter) I discussed as the shaft will be too small to fit the selected hole. You’ll need to make one. Jim Patrick

[John kuehn]

Here’s 2 photos of my 24 T Coupe which has the identical front window frame and front view of your 24 T four door. I got the wiper from Lang’s just to have a mostly complete car when I restored the car. The hole the wiper goes through was there but the original wiper was long gone. I’m not sure if a wiper came from the factory with a wiper but since it was the only hole in the frame I’m assuming it did. The wiper may be a little long but it’s there only for looks anyway.
These pics may give you reference on what your may look like with the original style rear view mirrow.

[jiminbartow]

Try those photos again, John.

[John kuehn]

Here’s the 2 24 Coupe photos with a Lang’s wiper.

[speedytinc]

Patina a couple round head machine screws with square nuts to fill the 2 holes.

[jiminbartow]

You can duplicate the patina on those two holes by mixing gloss black paint with flat black paint until you achieve the correct shade, then carefully apply the paint to only the two repaired holes. To avoid sanding the filler, dab the filler in the holes with a finger, when it starts to harden, wet your finger and gently smooth the surface of the repair on both sides. If done correctly, you can make it glass smooth without sanding. Try not to get the filler anyplace but in the hole. Do not allow the filler to get on the frame around the hole. I can’t imagine 2 carriage head bolts and nuts would look better than a decent repair. Jim Patrick

[Allan]

If patina/history is the aim, just leave the holes as they are. They are part of the car's history. Just make up a story to explain them.

If you do make a sleeve to take the wiper shaft, take all necessary steps to make the hole/sleeve square to the glass. When they owners fitted a wiper to Henrietta, the hole they drilled allowed the blade to make limited contact at one end of the stroke. I corrected this when fitting a sleeve in the frame.

Mention was made of keeping the blade up when not in use. One one of my cars, a brown shoe lace is tied to the mirror, and a loop goes over the arm knob. I even polished the brass aglets once.

Allan from down under.

[Mark Gregush]

Considering the holes are there, why not install a Model A vacuum or electric wiper?

[24TFORDOR]

Thanks everyone for the great advice; I can already see this forum is full of great Model T owners willing to help others out.

I think I'll order that Lang's wiper with the optional brass handle to see if I can make it work on my car. What's this "sleeve" I need to purchase, does anyone have a picture of that part? I thought it was just a matter of pushing the wiper shaft through the hole and pushing some rubber grommets and/or washers over the shaft on both sides? I'm sure I'll figure it out. I like the weathered/patina look of the car and don't intend to restore or fix up much cosmetically and I just like the look of the old manual hand wipers from a much simpler time. For the extra holes, I'll carefully fill them with Bondo and avoid doing much, if any, sanding and carefully touch up with matching black paint. I also like the idea of tying the wiper up horizontally using a band of some kind when driving to keep it out of the line of sight. If anyone has a good original wiper assembly that will bolt right into my 1924 Fordor, shoot me a message with details and price. Otherwise, I'll just make the Lang's part work

[jiminbartow]

The sleeve is like a tube with a outside diameter the same as the hole opening and an inside diameter the same diameter as the horizontal shaft and a length the same as the length of the shaft from front to back. It should be positioned with the end flush with the outside surface of the frame. I would secure it with a two part epoxy inside the frame to hold the sleeve from the inside of the frame, or if you are good at soldering perhaps you can solder it. Whatever way you choose to secure it in the hole is up to you. Maybe you can tap the inside of the hole and thread the outside of the sleeve so it can be screwed into the hole from the interior by means of a large screw driver inserted into two opposing grooves cut into the rim of the sleeve on the interior side.

To keep the wiper up and out of the way without a string to hold it up, you can increase the tension by bending the wiper shaft at the flat part toward the windshield so that it is tight against the glass and will stay up by itself, from the tension of the wiper blade against the glass. Jim Patrick

[Mark Gregush]

The sleeve may or may not be needed, that depends on the size of the hole the shaft that goes through the frame and how loose it is. You could make your own out of brass tubing if needed. If the blade does not stay up out of the way on its own, it does not have enough pressure pushing it against the glass to wipe. The arm between the blade and were it goes through the frame would need to be bent a little at a time till it stays in place.

[24TFORDOR]

OK, so a brass sleeve for the wiper shaft to rotate in, got it. I'll MacGyver something as I don't want the shaft just spinning freely in the frame hole.

If anyone has any close-up pictures of a wiper installed with sleeve, feel free to share them. I also ordered the Lang's chrome side hinge mirrors for my car and understand I'll need to do some filing/grinding to make them fit. The car will feel "complete" to me once those accessory pieces are installed.

I'll update this thread with photos after I get the hand wiper installed

[jiminbartow]

As Mark said, hold off on doing anything with the sleeve until you get the wiper assembly at which time, you can then determine what size sleeve you need, if any. Jim Patrick

[jiminbartow]

I found a picture online of a Fordor that may help. Being black, it is a little hard to see, but if you look hard, you can see the sleeve. You can enlarge the picture with your fingers on the screen. Jim Patrick

DA160D6D-EAA2-4D13-95FD-6F2F0ECF326B.jpeg (15.55 KiB) Viewed 4997 times

[24TFORDOR]

I found a picture online of a Fordor that may help. Being black, it is a little hard to see, but if you look hard, you can see the sleeve. You can enlarge the picture with your fingers on the screen. Jim Patrick
DA160D6D-EAA2-4D13-95FD-6F2F0ECF326B.jpeg

Thanks Jim, you are a wealth of knowledge! Do you know if the sleeve welded or pressed into the frame on that car? The wiper looks very cool when properly installed. I can't imagine ever using it, but showing someone a vintage manual wiper might strike up an interesting conversation.

[John kuehn]

If the hole in your frame is a little big you can use a piece of plastic tubing, plastic bushing or etc. You can find them at Ace hardware in various sizes. Find the correct size and cut to fit. Should work OK. They also have metal sleeves and bushings in various styles. That might work too.

[jiminbartow]

On the assembly line, the sleeve was probably spot welded or brazed when the windshield frame was being made, but since using heat now, would damage the paint patina, burn the rubber, or break the glass, I would not try that. Instead, I would consider getting a sleeve tube slightly larger than the frame hole and threading the end of it enough so that when it is screwed tight into the hole, the end would be flush with the outside face of the frame, then tap the hole the same thread size and TPI as the sleeve threads. Use some thread lock to keep it tightly in place. Once you get the wiper, you can drill the center hole the same size as the shaft. Slightly bend the vertical shaft toward the windshield so that there is enough blade tension on the glass to hold it up and out of the way. People really get a kick out of seeing a working hand wiper. Good luck. Jim Patrick

PS. Go to www.McMaster.com and type “spacers” in the search box and you may be able to find some sleeve stock for your project. They come in various materials, finishes, O.D. and hole ID sizes and lengths. You may be able to find others by typing different names in the search box. They also sell taps and dies for threading.

[Mark Gregush]

With the amount of use the wiper would get, all the sleeve has to do is take up any extra space so the shaft going through the frame sits more or less at a right angle to the windshield. Don't know if a sleeve was ever installed by the factory or dealer, just a hole drilled through the frame, but don't think so. Personally I would go with brass, steel or aluminum tubing and stay away from plastic or rubber.
I have used them when installed, on more than one occasion, once or twice in a very heavy downpour.

[jiminbartow]

My original, never restored, 1926 Fordor had a sleeve to take up the long horizontal shaft because the frame was not thick enough for the length of the shaft. My 1926 coupe did not have a sleeve because the frame was thick enough to accommodate the length of the shaft. On both wipers, the shaft going through the frame was the same length.

I used my wiper once upon getting caught in a sudden downpour on highway 60 in Brandon, FL in 1980. I had not yet found a sun visor so the rain hit directly on the windshield. Incredibly scary because I was in heavy, rush hour stop and go traffic. Surrounded by cars, not only did I have to drive, using both hands and both feet, I also had to operate the wiper with my left hand, while wiping the condensation from all the windows with my right just to be able to see out. I have not driven my T in the rain since. Too dangerous. Shortly after that, I found a sunvisor frame in a Hemmings catalogue which was the main way to find antique auto parts before the internet came along. Jim Patrick

[Mark Gregush]

LOL, my huckster I was glad I had one of those wipers with blades on both sides of the glass as there was condensation/rain spray on inside to! The inside one was felt.

[24TFORDOR]

From all of the very helpful responses here, I now understand why the sleeve is needed on the Fordor and will find an appropriate sleeve at the hardware store or online to make the Lang's wiper with brass handle work on my 24 Fordor. I don't ever plan on driving this car in the rain, so the wiper will be a cosmetic accessory as far as I'm concerned. Driving a model T in the rain sounds sketchy...I'll take my GMC Denali or the AMG for wet driving!

[jiminbartow]

The choice is yours, of course, but the wiper handle on a ‘24, closed car would have been nickel plated. Keep us posted as to where you get the material, how you make the sleeve and how you install it. It would be a nice ending to this thread. Jim Patrick

[Allan]

Jeremy, I noted your order of new mirrors from Langs. They are nicely made, having a chromed mounting arm and stainless steel head, but they will stand out! My Tudor came with them, and I was not happy with their "newness". I found a pair of 1960's chrome plated heads to attach to the arms. With 50 years of scratches, stone chips etc, they look like they have been there forever.

Finding mirrors which suit old cars is difficult. Finding mirrors for old cars which have patina is even more difficult. You may be able to tame their "newness" with a coat of satin black paint, or just live with them as they are.

Allan from down under.

[24TFORDOR]

The choice is yours, of course, but the wiper handle on a ‘24, closed car would have been nickel plated. Keep us posted as to where you get the material, how you make the sleeve and how you install it. It would be a nice ending to this thread. Jim Patrick

Good point Jim. It's only the knob that's brass, but the shaft is black which wouldn't match.

I'll start with the stainless steel wiper assembly and see how it looks:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/7801LSS.aspx

Will definitely post results and pics when I get around to installing these parts on the car. My Lang's shopping cart keeps getting bigger and bigger LOL

[24TFORDOR]

Jeremy, I noted your order of new mirrors from Langs. They are nicely made, having a chromed mounting arm and stainless steel head, but they will stand out! My Tudor came with them, and I was not happy with their "newness". I found a pair of 1960's chrome plated heads to attach to the arms. With 50 years of scratches, stone chips etc, they look like they have been there forever.

Finding mirrors which suit old cars is difficult. Finding mirrors for old cars which have patina is even more difficult. You may be able to tame their "newness" with a coat of satin black paint, or just live with them as they are.

Allan from down under.

I was thinking the same thing Allan - that those new chrome mirrors would look funny on a 100-year-old weather-worn black model T!

The car has no mirrors right now and I'd like to install a set that look correct for the 20s. If anyone has a nice weathered old set of mirrors that will bolt onto my Fordor, send me a message and I might buy them from you. I was also looking at these black mirrors on eBay, but they require drilling the stanchion (no thanks).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165847458645?h ... R56Nv5HZYQ

Snyders also has a mirror arm that I don't understand how it would fit on my car, but it's black and they sell the black mirror for it:

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/prod ... 2790&cat=0

Perhaps I'll hold off until I can find a nice worn set of rusty vintage mirrors with a nice patina, as you suggested. I don't want the car to look funny

[TXGOAT2]

I noticed an item at WalMart recently called a "golf cart heater". I assume it is some type of blower with an electric heating element. The carton is about the size of a small shoebox, suggesting that the item is about the size of a hand held hair dryer. Such a device might be of some use in keeping the inside of a T winshield clear, if enough wattage were to be available to operate it.

Applying EasyOff oven cleaner to a new repro mirror might serve to patinate chrome or stainless.

[BHarper]

Hi Jeremy,
The mirror arm which you reference in the Snyder's link fits open cars only; it is not intended for enclosed cars. I hope that this helps.

[TXGOAT2]

Some Mid 1920s Ford ad copy mentions a windshield wiper as standard euipment on closed cars, but I haven't found anything specifically mentioning a power wiper.
Ad for the '28 Model A specifically mention an electric wiper.

[DanTreace]

Ford Service Bulletin June 1924 announced the addition of windshield hand wiper and rear view mirror, so these were std. around that time for open and closed cars.

Later in 1926, Ford added option by dealer of a vacuum operated windshield wiper, that could be installed on open or closed cars.[/b]

Of course, long before Ford offered factory accessories, the aftermarket was full of windshield wipers, many kinds of manual, some clip on over the open car windshield frame, some bolt mounted, some in power, either vacuum or electric!

[ecory0]

OP, did you wind up installing the wiper? I’m looking to do the same thing and trying to figure out how much longer to extend the wiper rod.