Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
jbdairy03
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:39 pm
First Name: Jay
Last Name: boldt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1
Location: manitowoc, Wi

Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by jbdairy03 » Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:08 pm

Hello
Think I bought a Johnny Cash model T roadster 22, 23,24, 25,26!!
The engine is a 22 according to the serial number
It is a high cowl, 28” width
And high hood
Turtleback 23 ?
The tub shows would be suicide doors, but it does show where hinges would be mounted on the driver side ?
What’s puzzling me is the cowl vent and the riser above the cowl and the windshield stanchions which are welded on good grief !
There are no holes in the cowl where the windshield stanchions would be bolted on ? Where someone put on these extension ??
The oil line going from the engine to the transmission, goes into the transmission cover and not above the magnet ?
Thank for any help obviously it’s a put together T. Just trying to figure out my best move if I need to replace the cowl or the tub to make everything match.
Attachments
IMG_5309.jpeg
IMG_5306.jpeg
IMG_5307.jpeg
IMG_5305.jpeg
IMG_5304.jpeg


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6523
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919
Location: not near anywhere, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:37 pm

you will do yourself and everyone else a favor is you first state what your intentions/plans are for this car. This will yield the best and most practical advice for you. There's no doubt that you can make it run and have a lot of fun with it, but as you already know, it is a collection of parts from many years and not all of them are FORD, so there is not a real firm basis for planning any refurbishment or restoration.

In any event, have fun with the car and welcome to the affliction.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves™
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Topic author
jbdairy03
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:39 pm
First Name: Jay
Last Name: boldt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1
Location: manitowoc, Wi

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by jbdairy03 » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:02 pm

That is a good question, what it will eventually be is part of the reason I’m asking what year the Cowl might be compared to the rest of it. will never be entered in a show or a fine point judging just something to ride around with friends already have a Model A Wood panel delivery that I literally started with only the cowl and hood and fenders I do you want to keep this one as a roadster?


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6523
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919
Location: not near anywhere, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:06 pm

appropriately titled: DEFINING THE MODEL T FORD

https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/

take some time and search details of bodies by year - you may start to unravel some clues

I'll get you started: 1924 Model year saw BOTH the introduction the high hood, and the appearance of cowl vents in closed cars (notice the word BOTH in the sentence above, as vents were on 1923 Fordors, but they were low cowl/hood cars)
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves™
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Topic author
jbdairy03
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:39 pm
First Name: Jay
Last Name: boldt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1
Location: manitowoc, Wi

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by jbdairy03 » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:10 pm

A couple pics of my last project so the canvas is wide open if there is too much of a difference there is between the cowl and the tub that I wouldn’t be able to mate them up and look decent but i do want to keep it as a roadster
Attachments
Before.jpeg
IMG_0582.jpeg

User avatar

Tadpole
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:17 am
First Name: Tad
Last Name: Glahn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe, 1926 TT Closed Cab, 1924 Runabout
Location: Grant's Lick, Kentucky
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Tadpole » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:10 pm

The cowl looks like it’s off a TT closed cab truck, ‘26-‘27.


Erik Johnson
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:25 pm
First Name: Erik
Last Name: Johnson
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Erik Johnson » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:12 pm

Consider posting better photos that aren't close-ups so we can see the car in its entirety.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 7238
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:50 pm

Especially with a parts salad, you need lots of photos. You want close-ups, medium, and long shots from front and back, both sides, and four corners. Show the engine compartment from both sides, hand brake quadrant, firewall, pedals, door hinges, front springs, and rear springs. All of those can be clues in dating.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 4249
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:11 am

The turtle deck looks like it is probably a 1914 through 1922 standard runabout trunk. However, the lid on it appears to home made, and although it probably could be fixed up and made to look pretty good? It is not in very good condition and something else for the back of it might be better.
As said, more and better pictures would help. I can't tell if it an actual runabout body or something else. The driver's door looks like something someone made? Canadian built Ts those days did have a driver's side door in them, unlike the USA built cars.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
Location: central MN
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Duey_C » Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:09 am

That accessory oiler looks like it would actually work! Nice.
Neat mess! Put-togethers are a crap load of fun! You could name it Frank N Stein!
Someone else had fun piecing it together. I like it. Do exactly as you wish. :)
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

User avatar

Charlie B in N.J.
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
First Name: CHARLIE
Last Name: BRANCA
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
Location: Brick N.J.
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:34 am

Frank Einstein.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


Moxie26
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:20 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Jablonski
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: New Jersey
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Moxie26 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:48 am

Looks more like a Model A setup

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 620
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by George Mills » Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:52 pm

Well...thats a fine example of a car built with leftovers (not critical, one of mine is and its really a lot of fun)

I'll go with high cowl high hood - real 23 concept or later. Add a pic of the firewall to see if it is revision H or L and it might 'help' with narrowing down what the cowl actually is...

I know of no upper cowl being stamped, but I don't know TT's...and would have to look up what Ford did with chassis only sales once he decided to supply commercial bodies (circa 23 according to a Fordex I have)

The windshield stanchions were added as a hope and a prayer...

The chassis running gear all is 25 or before...the front fenders could help as bead out and exposed at splash apron match up or bead in has associated dates of possibilities...

I suspect that the front cowl / firewall are from something different than the actual tub...easy enough to check, the match up would have been done under the door sills...that could also cause the door issues you imply...

I'm fairly sure that roadster 'trunk' is pre 22...strong chance earlier, but I don't see the original handle 'holes'

That outside oil kit was the way the Western Auto version aftermarket went. Looks like a copy, but same principle.

These things all work out..eventually, have fun...

Keep it all coming, this place loves to graze on features and years...lol


Topic author
jbdairy03
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:39 pm
First Name: Jay
Last Name: boldt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1
Location: manitowoc, Wi

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by jbdairy03 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:13 pm

Thanks for all the replies still digging into the clues and will get everyone more photos


kmatt2
Posts: 655
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster’s,51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by kmatt2 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:09 pm

I will start with the good news, the engine block has the Ford scrip. Ford changed the block castings to drop the scrip during 1923 so the block with a 1922 engine number matches if you have a one piece valve cover, the two piece valve cover was last used in 1921. The next thing I see is that the turtle deck is not Ford, it looks like the turtle deck is off a 1915-22 Dodge to me. The cowl is from a cut off 1925-27 Ford TT closed cab truck, that flat vertical panel above the cowl is a dead giveaway. The back of the seating area I can’t tell much about from the picture but it could be from 1915-22 Model T roadster, if it was from a 1923-25 T roadster I would expect to see the higher up bead that matches the later T 1923-25 deck. The Dodge deck could be hiding lower 1915-22 back panel or the back panel could be home made. One more thing, the windshield looks to be a modified version of that same Dodge roadster that gave up the deck. I would assume that because it has the cut off TT cab that the radiator and hood are from a 1924-25 T car, which the 1924-27 TT truck also used. In general you have a Model T chassis that could be built into a non-Ford body delivery to match your 1929 Model A.


kmatt2
Posts: 655
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster’s,51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by kmatt2 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:09 pm

Sorry for the double post, I hate posting to this darn system with my I phone.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6523
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919
Location: not near anywhere, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:07 pm

FWIW - two piece valve cover lasted well into 1922 for certain, and some sources put them into 1923

viewtopic.php?t=37161&p=287196
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves™
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


nsbrassnut
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:30 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Lee
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by nsbrassnut » Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:13 pm

If you look close, I think that the seat tub may actually be a back seat from a touring car. The rear door post looks like where the rear door hing on a touring would mount.

Have fun with the investigations.

Drive Safe

Jeff


kmatt2
Posts: 655
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster’s,51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by kmatt2 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:22 pm

You are correct Jeff, the side panels, at least, are from the back half of a 1921-25 touring, you can see the hole for the top bracket in the picture if you look closer than I first did. Scott, yes two piece valve covers were cast into around March 1922. I am not so sure about 1923, but with 1923 being the highest production year Ford could have had pull blocks from replacement stock supplies.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 7238
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:41 pm

Oil line from the inspection door, or speedometer cable?
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 5174
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by RajoRacer » Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:45 am

Appears to be a "home-made" oiler.


ModelT46
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 pm
First Name: Darel
Last Name: Leipold
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring
Location: Excelsior MN
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Johnny Cash Model T year ID ?

Post by ModelT46 » Fri Jul 07, 2023 12:22 pm

I really enjoy Ford Model Ts "as found" They are more interesting than a perfect "restored one". Often these Ts were put together "on a dime" back in the 1940-50s. There were lots of parts lying around. Here in Minnesota I remember those scrap yards that were full of 1915-30 cars and parts.I remember a farm near Danube, Mn that was full of good Model T parts. I would load up a trailer and the farmer woudld say, Two dollars is just fine". Another one was east of Spicer Mn and was full of parts from early 1900s up to 20s. The owner, Oscar Palm, would give me a good deal,for I paid for what I took, He told me how others would load up with stuff and drive off (Some were "good" club members') This Model T should be put in good running shape and used as found. Please, MORE PHOT!.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic