Looking for pictures of Holley Carburtors from 1911-1912 Holley H1 and the 1913 Holley Model S

[VowellArt]

Okay, what I need is a view looking in through the choke side of this carburetor. I've got lots of side and top views, and some really nice parts views as well. But what I need to see is the interior band that the choke shaft passes through...I'm just wondering if it is there or not, because the patent drawing shows one. Patent drawings never show completely what anything really looks like, they're usually conceptual only (I ran into that quite recently with the Ford Trico Automatic Vacuum Wiper Motor).

If anyone has one of these carburetors please post the pictures here and if you also have the 1912 Holley H1 I'd like some parts pictures and views looking through both the throttle and choke sides of the carburetor. Also if anybody has some really good pictures of the Buffalo Carburetor taken apart I'd like to see those too.

Thanks,

Martynn

[Rich Eagle]

I'm not sure this is what you need. It is of my 2 screw Holley. If it doesn't apply, let me know and I will remove these.

Rich

[Steve Jelf]

Have you looked at the photos and diagrams in Bruce's encylopedia? They're not comprehensive, but you get one or two views of every carburetor.

[Allan]

I can help with photos of the H1 off my Haigh's chocolate van, but not until this evening. There were external differences in H1's. some had a clamping screw for the hot air pipe, some had two screws on the top cover rather than three.

Allan from down under.

[Corey Walker]

I can send you all kinds of pictures. It may be tomorrow but I’ve got both kinds I can take apart or just look through my photos. Here are a couple of the Model S. I was fooling around writing a book on my iPad and here are 3 pages. The first picture is a 2-screw H1.

[Corey Walker]

Here is the Model S spray needle guide removed.

[VowellArt]

Oh my gosh yes! I need all of these! Yes Rich, this is exactly what I was asking about....seems the patent drawings had is almost right, theirs was a might wider though, but the one in your picture makes more sense for practical application.

Steve, I've looked at Bruce's pictures, have his encyclopedia and his parts books too on disk. Like you said they show only a couple of pictures of the outside (the right side I think) and its interior parts, what would really be nice is to see all of them not just a select few.

Allen, please post your H1 photos or send them directly to my email (I think you have it, let me know if you don't).

Corey, these are great pictures of the 1911 H1 and the parts are clean looking too (even better). 1911 was the early version of the H1, it had a clamp screw on the choke side of the body for the Hot Air Pipe....something the 1912 version (the 3 screw) didn't have. Did it have a fuel filter under that large screw cap on the fuel inlet (always been curious about that, couldn't see a reason for it otherwise)?

Hmmm, the Venturi sets on top this right? those openings are for the Low Idle tube clearance right?

Does anybody have a Buffalo Carb? I'd like to complete all of the early carburetors if I can. According to Bruce the Buffalo was only used in 1909 (first version) and early 1910 (2nd version). What's inside one, the pictures in the Encyclopedia just show the bowl removed, need to see a few more parts than that to draw it.

I hate to mention this one too, but it is absolutely necessary to complete all of the early car carburetors...the Holley 4100 (1910) and the Holley 4500 (1911). The chief difference between these two is that the 1910, 4150 was a "5 Ball" carburetor (which worked pretty much like the Kingston versions) that were located beneath a 3 screw cover sort of like on later Holley's (H1 and G). The 1911, 4500 did away with those balls in favor of a single valve located above the fuel inlet just in front of the the mixture needle and under a large cover with a bolt through it.
I need all these to finish this part of my project. There are a few more other assemblies items too, but once I get all these things squared away I can start on the final piece of the puzzle that is the Model T Ford....the big damned heavy noisy thing up front....the ENGINE!

It's like I've said before....Fun never quits!

[Scott_Conger]

Martyn

you are providing the hobby a remarkable service which cannot be repaid other than through sheer appreciation. You certainly have mine.

[Rich Eagle]

What Scott said and more. I don't know how you keep doing these, but we are so grateful.
Rich

[Corey Walker]

I’d love to include those early models if I had some examples to photograph. I only can take pictures of ones I’m working on. I just found a Kingston regenerator I haven’t disassembled. Here are a few H1 pictures.

[Corey Walker]

Here are a couple more.

[Corey Walker]

Model S body.

[Corey Walker]

Some of the Model S have a choked down hole where the fuel comes in. Be seen Holley G’s like this as well.

[Corey Walker]

Original seat for H1 and needle- float arm assemblies.Some are brass while others are pot metal. Model S float.

[Corey Walker]

H1 bodies.

[VowellArt]

Thanks guys, but I'd rather draw the Model T than what I used to work on (stuff that went boom and or released toxic gas usually in foreign countries), as a rule, Model T's don't explode, which makes them waaay more fun to draw. But from an engineering standpoint are almost as intricate and devilishly clever as anything the ordnance companies I worked for ever came up with.

Corey, I've already drawn both the Kingston Regenerator and the Gasifier for Jim Mahaffey when he did an article on them for the MTFCI. Those assemblies are here on the Forum complete with throttle, choke, start up and idle position cross sections. Plus a color fuel flow diagram for both as well. Interesting design, no parts to wear out (unlike the Holley Vaporizer, which is really an NH with a vaporizing unit on top of it). What also made the Regenerator and the Gasifier unique, is that the Intake and Exhaust Manifold were one piece and neither the B1 (Gasifier) or the B (Regenerator) would work without that manifold, they're integral to its operation and the only thing you had to replace were the gaskets....the B1 Gasifier, has an extension piece to lower the mixing bowl so it would also work on cars with an under the front seat fuel tank. The reason you don't see many of these on Model T and do see more of the Holley version, is because, the Kingston's had more parts and took more machining, so of course were more expensive to build in Henry's eyes, what Henry wanted was something a lot less expensive that would do basically the same job, even though the Kingston Regenerator or the Gasifier were far superior to anything Holley built (even Henry admitted that, it was just a cost issue) ....but they were sure fun to draw!

Funny about that float arm pictures you've posted....it's a lot like the one on the Stromberg Model B #3, with the exception that the float also pivots from the arm and it also has a pivotal screw but the float valve arm hooks onto the valve needle assembly which has adjustable thumb screw for setting both the idle and speed. The odd thing about the Stomberg, is that it is an updraft carburetor and the #3 was made expressly for Model T (probably for racing), because the air intake is facing forward towards the radiator, not back towards the firewall. which means the faster you go the more air is crammed through the throat, causing it to perform sort of like a carburetor/blower set up, Royce Peterson told me that it is "a very strong running carburetor"....I think he has it on his 1914). The other thing that is sort of funny about the Stromberg, is that the throttle linkage isn't on the carburetor at all....it is on the Intake Manifold just above the carburetors mounting flange.
I haven't quite finished that one yet, but now that Jim Mahaffey's Ford Trico Automatic Vacuum Wiper Motor is put to bed, I can get back to the Model T Chassis stuff again....fun never quits ya know.

[Corey Walker]

Martin, no filter under the cap. It’s just to access the float valve. You have to remove the needle from the float arm before you can remove it by removing the little hinge screw. There is a gasket under the lip of the cap. It’s a rope gasket that fits in a groove in the carb body to seal the bowl at the top.

[Corey Walker]

The S and H1 bowls. The soldered in threaded insert for the petcock is missing from the H1 bowl. The wire venturi retaining clips in H1’s have 2- 90 degree bends at the end unlike the G which has one.

[VowellArt]

Corey, are those 90º bends on the retaining clip on the ends and do they fit into some hole or groove on the Venturi? Like the above picture?

[michaelb2296]

[michaelb2296]

Some pics of my holley 4500...

[michaelb2296]

[VowellArt]

Michael, woo good pictures (shiny little devil), what's under the little cover with the hex bolt on top? Is that access to the float valve like on the H1?

[michaelb2296]

Are you talking about 4516 or 4524?

[michaelb2296]

Also, for giggles, the 4538 “pipe” is 11.5” and is 1/2” copper diameter or OD less than the .8” hole opening… or you can turn down a steel pipe the last 3/4” on each end to .78” … whatever…. Heat is your friend on carburetor intake, imo.

[KimDobbins]

I have a buffalo for a 1909 T, I can post pictures in about 10 days.

[VowellArt]

Kim, you have a buffalo? Great, that was the one I thought I'd never see (is it taken apart? Need to see the internal parts).

Michael, that's exactly the same thing I've said to many of my friends who think that the Hot Air Pipe is just something in the way. One time I forgot to put mine back on and car stated bucking and coughing. I pulled over and looked under the hood for a problem with the manifold or the exhaust pipe packing nut and my Kingston L-4 carburetor intake had frosted up...In Summer no less! I limped home, put the Hot Air Pipe that evening and haven't had a problem of that kind since. I can't see how anybody with any Holley wouldn't have one, but I run across that very problem on a lot of 23-27 cars that I've work on....bloody NH is the most cold blooded beast, there is a starting mixture setting and a running mixture setting. With my Kingston (bronze body) L-4, you set it once after you install it and never have to mess with again, starts on the first pull when warm and the second (sometimes a 3rd) pull when cold. My car is a 1922 Touring, she has a starter but I never use it, I always crank her...mostly because nobody expects you to hop in and stomp on a starter...folks just like seeing somebody crank one of these cars. What really blows their mind is when they notice there are no seat belts.

[Scott_Conger]

Martynn

it's nice that you can relay your hot air pipe experience and not be shouted down on the Forum that you did NOT experience what you experienced and must be some sort of nut. We had our own little "Cancel Culture" running rampant up to just a few years ago here. It's one thing to hold an opinion that someone a Boob, and quite another to try to Gaslight them to the point that what they actually experience and what actually fixed it, simply never happened. Good for you. And again, thank you for all of your hard work...

[michaelb2296]

[VowellArt]

One more question...

Michael (or anyone for that matter)....do you double gasket the bottom of the carburetor bowl (one inside between the bowl and the carburetor body post and one on the outside of the bowl under the nut?

I found I had to do that on my Kingston L-4 to keep it from dribbling fuel out of the bowl (even with the fuel shut off...then it just drained the bowl). In the old days I suppose nobody cared over much about fuel or oil loss, and folks are fond of saying things like "Model T doesn't drip, it's just marking its territory" or "it's not a Model T if it doesn't drip something (gas, water or oil)", yeah fine for days gone by I suppose, but these days with things the way they are, ummm. I for one try and keep all the juicy and gooey stuff inside the T's workings and not running all over the street...She has no need to mark Her territory, because She owns all the roads She travels on!

[michaelb2296]

gaskets, rtv, and teflon as needed! Why waste it?

[michaelb2296]

[michaelb2296]

[JvanMaanen]

Martynn,

have you already done the Holley 4550? I'm far from a carb expert, but I have a carb that was sold to me as a Holley G, but seems like a 4550 judging from the pictures in Bruce's book. The carb appears unused and unrestored, can't really remember who from or where I got it, think I was going to use it on my 08 SR. I can send you pics, but again I am no photographer.. and last but not least don't want to side track this thread and all the good info being provided.

Van

[VowellArt]

Jim, no I haven't done a Holley 4550 yet (I don't think), anyhoo, the Holley G 6040 1914-1918 non electric cars, I've drawn. Apparently there are quite a few Holley's I didn't know about, so I'm catching up as quick as I can.

But if you've got another Holley, carb, please take pictures and post them here, so I can make the Holley carburetor set complete.

[JvanMaanen]

Here are a couple of pics of what I have, like I said I am no photographer. It looks alot like the 6040 except it has two screws. If it is something you are interested in, I can always send it off to you and you can send it back when you are done with it. I also have a 90 degree Holley G.

Van

[michaelb2296]

I’ve sent you a couple of emails….
Did you need anymore pictures? Can you clarify your #’s
You were asking about? I dont find them in the drawing…
Ahh, maybe you were referring to tge other carb…
Let me look at it again.

Thanks,
Michael

[michaelb2296]

More close ups! Under 4524 nut there is a small “glass” ball valve, i believe is part of 4537! I can hold the glass ball valve down and it stops all flow. I imagine there is a spring holding it up that is not in my drawing i found on the internet.

[michaelb2296]

[VowellArt]

Michael, that looks an awful lot like a Gross Jet, only these days they've got a stainless ball, never seen one with a glass one before. Not so sure they'd work very well with an under the seat tank though. They need fuel pressure to close, so they work really well in 26-27 Model T's with cowl tanks and 28-31 Model A's. I put one in my Model A's Zenith and was really quite happy with it. It didn't jostle open when I hit a large pothole or really bad patch of road either.

[VowellArt]

Jim, that looks like a Holley S 2 screw....does it have a data plate that tells you the model number?

[JvanMaanen]

Martynn,

no data plate. Cover reads Holley Pats Pend Detroit. no date. I can get some more pictures if you want.

[nsbrassnut]

For Martynn

I look forward to seeing your drawings.

Here is something a bit different that you may find of interest. A Holley H1 for RHD cars. The only difference is in the throttle lever. But you don't see them all that often. Eastern Canada drove on the other side up to 1922-23 so RHD parts still show up here from time to time.

I also have a few Holley Gs with the RHD throttle lever too. Those levers are similar.

Enjoy.

Jeff

[VowellArt]

Jeff, yes, I'd like to see the RHD Holley G too and any linkage differences as well.