1915-16 Headlight question

[FATMAN]

I know the 1915-16 head light had the focus screw hole on the top but what year was it at the bottom? see photos,Bob

[MWalker]

Never saw one at the bottom before.

[FATMAN]

Here is the other side, clear lens huge bulb,Bob

[TRDxB2]

Wonder if its an aftermarket product or a production fail. Your photo appears o show a differences around the hole for the socket. Also what does the bolt end look like?

[DanTreace]

Just a guess, but maybe the lamp is earlier design, prior to changing to an adjustable socket for focusing the bulb?

Here is a pair without any hole for adjusting screw, so maybe the early '15 when electric lamps came along, the suppliers to Ford had different designs, certainly later, the adjustment screw was above the socket, as mentioned in the 1919 Service Bulletin.

These early lamps did use the elbow type plug which hung down, so maybe this one with hole below is at the change time. Sure would be hard to adjust the bulb screw with the elbow plug in the way!

[Wayne Sheldon]

I wish I had the time to research this. We need a definitive reference for the several headlamp variations through the 1915 to 1920 years!
There are some things I think I know? Several things I used to think I knew, but later found out I was wrong!
Those buckets with the outside plug socket and no adjusting screw I "think" have been narrowed down to a limited time between 1918 and 1920, possibly 1919 only? Something to do with early starter/generator cars? The headlamps were wired differently, with bulb sockets mounted onto the reflectors, and wired to the outside socket. I have seen several of them, held them in my hands, had them apart to look at the sockets and wiring! I just do not know for certain when or on what cars they were originally used. (I know I bookmarked a previous discussion, however I couldn't find it in several minutes of looking?)

1915 and somewhat for 1916 had several anomalous headlamps. The very early only on early center-door sedans and couplets were larger with heavier looking bezels and rounder buckets. Those are rarely ever seen!
The white painted bucket with the stamped manufacturer's information circling the socket is one of the most common 1915 style headlamps, and were used at least through 1916. Note that although the bucket shape is slightly different than the common later headlamps, that it does still have a small flat area where the bulb socket pokes through.
That detail is important, because the other less common 1915 headlamps had a slightly more rounded back of the bucket, with no flat area for the socket.
Headlamps those years were made by a few lamp manufacturing companies, to Ford's design, however there were variations between the manufacturers. Some like the white one pictured above had the manufacturers information stamped into the bucket. Others did not. I have one "round back" 1915 lamp that has a round stamping barely enough to show through the paint, and not quite deep enough to read the lettering. I have another nice enough round back that clearly has no markings on it. And those two "round backs" are just different enough that I am not sure I want to run them as a pair.

A few years ago, I communicated with Royce P bout the lamps I had and which would be best for my early 1915. His response was that either of the two basic styles I had were fine for an early 1915. I am still not sure which ones I will use. The nicer better matching but more common pair? Or the not quite as nice, not quite a proper match but more unusual pair?

[Kerry]

I can list another variant in a light, my Canadian 1916 has the top screw as normal for adjustment but the rim is not the twist fit with no provision to do so, the bucket has a locating pin for the rim at the bottom and an anchor screw at the top.

[Allan]

Then of course, is the Canadian fork mounted lights, with the focus screw at the top. Personal observation of our Canadian sourced lights would have me believing we did not get lights with the small flat area at the back around the socket.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

I believe there is some confusion with the larger bezel headlights on the 1915 and the on time offering of the dual bulb headlight in 1919. I looked at the parts catalogues in Cinmorelli's Library https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm to see if there when there were references to the dual bilb headlights. The 1919 Ford Lighting System is the only one that references their operation. There are no references to their parts (reflectors, wiring or buckets) in fact the 1919 parts catalogue seems to intentionally exclude them (Standard 1915-19)
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Dbl Bulb Pot.jpg (23.3 KiB) Viewed 1108 times

6511X is the double or two bulb headlamps assembly.jpg (58.48 KiB) Viewed 1108 times

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[DanTreace]

Frank

This info may help narrow in the dates of use, at least it gives the different headlamps and bulb usage. (From Service Bulletin

The two-bulb headlamps (Part # T-6511-C, or Fac. No. 6511CX, the third one down in the list ) were used with the green painted visor clear lens, in 1919 mostly, but who knows!
Would also think the larger brass rim was on the earliest magneto headlamp in 1915. There were other manufactures than Victor too for these early headlamps.

Click on images to enlarge some or for zooming in on your PC.

And this info is from Bruce Mc's research using Price and Parts Lists to assist the dating of usage. Indeed, knowing the exact time of use and the exact month in a model year of the Ford is difficult, as parts were chasing the build rate!