No buzz...

[Couchsachraga]

I've used the great search feature and tried a few things but am hopeful someone might point me in the right order of what to do next... so my apologies now for asking what I know is a somewhat common question!

I recently picked up a '24 Model T and have been going over it both to learn about it and get it running again. In theory it ran before it was put away, but that was quite a while ago. So far it appears everything was stored well (all connects are clean, though I've cleaned them again to remove any oxidation, fresh oil and grease were evident (changed now, at least the oil).

So I have gas to the carburetor and it turns over (new 6v battery). New plugs, properly gapped.. but no coil buzz. (turning key, then hand-cranking to listen for anything buzzing)

I cleaned the timer (pre-cleaning image below), in addition to taking each of the 4 wires off and cleaning the terminals better, then adding some dielectric grease to help fight against future oxidation.

I have noticed the lights will work (battery), but only after wiggling the switch, so I"m wondering if that is a hint of where to look next. I also noted there was an empty terminal; I'm not sure if that is normal or not (image below) I did tighten all the screws (as well as checking the screws in to the blocks for the coils, though I did not clean those as they looked really good).

I have not pulled the individual coils to clean their terminals (next step perhaps?); they "look good".

I need to find an "Elmer" (ham radio term) locally as I suspect it is likely very simple; since I've not connected with anyone yet I post here! Thank you in advance for any helpful thoughts. I have to say so far the T makes my '63 Farmall Cub look downright complicated (which is difficult given how simple a Cub is!).

[Mark Gregush]

Did you turn the key to the battery side while you were hand cranking?
Go to the next step and pull the coils and clean all the terminals. While you are at it, clean the points on the coils too.

[Professor Fate]

Make up a jumper wire to go from (+) on battery to the input of the coil box, thus bypassing any switch issue you may have. If the coils don't buzz with a direct jumper, then it's either contacts in the coil box or the coils themselves.

[Couchsachraga]

I did turn the key:)

I'll get to cleaning those external terminals... and keep my fingers crossed....

I'll try the bypass wire too... probably tomorrow morning at this point for domestic harmony!

Thank you!

[Susanne]

Just as a word of warning - do NOT put battery voltage into your mag post!! If you have a good mag, you won't!

Especially if you suspect switch issues, unhook the wire from the top of your mag post BEFORE you "hotwire" your T!

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Don’t jump anything if you’re unsure about testing. Your coils either aren’t getting ground or power. Since you went through the timer let’s go to power. The coils get constant power whenever starting/running and the power goes to the bottom of the coil box. Locate that wire and put a test light on it. This won’t hurt anything. Check for power with the switch on Batt also wiggle it to see if the contact is bad. No power or flickering when moving the switch is the problem. It’s power or ground you’re missing.

[speedytinc]

"I have noticed the lights will work (battery), but only after wiggling the switch, so I"m wondering if that is a hint of where to look next. I also noted there was an empty terminal; I'm not sure if that is normal or not (image below) I did tighten all the screws (as well as checking the screws in to the blocks for the coils, though I did not clean those as they looked really good)."

Big clue. SWITCH.
Either way you have a switch issue.
Take it apart & service the contacts.

[TXGOAT2]

Turn key to LEFT for "Bat", then crank. Turn key to RIGHT for "Mag" to run car on magneto, or to start on "MAG".

Turning the key from center position to left to center to right a dozen times or so may get it working if it is internally dirty.

[jiminbartow]

Make sure the coil box lid is on, as it provides tension to the four coil boxes so they will make good contact. If you have to jiggle the switch to make the lights work, that is probably the source of your problem. You might need to take the switch apart, clean the contact points with 600 grit sandpaper and increase the tension on the the contacts by bending them outward and lightly lubricate with Vaseline. If you do take your switch apart, be careful when bending the tabs back as they can break off if you bent them sharply at one point, try and gradually bend them back using the whole tab, spreading out the bend evenly. No need to cut the rivets holding the switch housing to the faceplate. Housing does not need to be removed. Jim Patrick

[Norman Kling]

If you have another T which runs, or know someone who has one, and it still runs on coils, try swapping the coils. Do this one by one. If the good running car, will not run on your coils, then you will know that you need to get your coils rebuilt. Since the car was setting a long time, it is quite possible that the condensors in the coils have deteriorated or the points have become corroded.
Norm

[TRDxB2]

Not sure how you wired your switch but it appears to be a unique backing plate. It may have been from another vehicle and retrofitted to the T switch plate. It may have internal contact issues. If so I can fix it.Also there appears to be a crack in the backing plate wher the screw in the 11 o'clock position is. Would like to see what the front of the switch plate looks like - can you add a photo of it
What you need to do is test for continuity from the switch positions to the terminal strip or coil box as to what it is supposed to make contact with

[Oldav8tor]

You might want to consider sending your coils out to be checked and adjusted. Other than that, the switch is certainly suspect. I didn't see any photos of the timer brush - I'm curious as to it's condition.


Ran when parked.........

[Couchsachraga]

Thank you all for the thoughtful posts! Great community here.

In no particular order:
-The roller on the timer was nice and shiny, but I still cleaned it up a bit in case there was oxidation I couldn't see.
-With key on, I checked power to the coil input - nothing. I"m assuming (always dangerous!) there is correct power to the key since the headlights work...
-Power to the input to the coils (bypassing the key) - BUZZING! On all 4 coils I believe too (spinning the crank by hand).
- I took apart the switch (images below pre-cleaning), cleaned the contacts, and no change. I think the "dimples" don't go quite deep enough.
-Oddly I don't have a cover for the coil box.

I'm likely ordering either a backing plate, or perhaps a new switch in its entirety, as well as a coil box cover (assuming Langs or someplace has one!). I might be able to tweak the switch backing plate enough to make it work, but given the "warping" and crack I'm leaning towards replacement.

One step at a time... thank you all again! To those I didn't address I did read your post and appreciate your thoughts - I likely will end up sending the coils out for a rebuild, but first I'd like to get it at least almost functional!

Other thoughts (and thoughts on replacing switch vs. just backing plate) are welcome!

[Norman Kling]

I think you have found the source of the problem. Old switches can cause exactly what is going on. Most of the parts places have the contact plate, but the inner part witch rotates, not so likely unless you can find an entire switch. Also check swap meets or friends who have parted out cars. Sometimes they have spare switches or parts. Also, the lid on the coil box will help very much to keep the coils in place. The spring contacts on the bottom are pressing upward, and bumps and vibrations will cause the coils to lose contact.
Welcome to the hobby. You will experience some problems at first, but after you get it working as it should, it will give you very little trouble for many miles.
Norm

[John kuehn]

The backing plate on the switch is the problem. Use some fine sandpaper and clean all the brass contacts on the backing plate. It’s looks you have a not so common switch. The most common version is the one that’s being reproduced but not that one. Ford used different manufacturers to make parts that were used.
What you could do is to take the switch back and carefully sand it with some sand paper on a flat surface. That way it will sand easily. Don’t remove much of the back but just enough to get it perfectly even.
Also slightly bend up the brass tabs on the switch that is still on the switch assembly. It looks like one is barely making contact on the switch back. You can tell by the shiny places on the the brass tabs.

Good luck!

[Couchsachraga]

I'll likely order up a switch, but may also try sanding the entire plate down - my mind hadn't quite thought of that yet, but it makes a lot of sense!

[RajoRacer]

You're better off using an original switch - just clean it up like you're doing !

[Distagon2]

Don't bother buying a reproduction switch. Find an original if you can't get yours working right. Trust me on this, I speak from experience.

[TRDxB2]

Thank you all for the thoughtful posts! Great community here.

In no particular order:
..........................................
- I took apart the switch (images below pre-cleaning), cleaned the contacts, and no change. I think the "dimples" don't go quite deep enough.
-Oddly I don't have a cover for the coil box.

I'm likely ordering either a backing plate, or perhaps a new switch in its entirety, as well as a coil box cover (assuming Langs or someplace has one!). I might be able to tweak the switch backing plate enough to make it work, but given the "warping" and crack I'm leaning towards replacement.

One step at a time... thank you all again! To those I didn't address I did read your post and appreciate your thoughts - I likely will end up sending the coils out for a rebuild, but first I'd like to get it at least almost functional!

Other thoughts (and thoughts on replacing switch vs. just backing plate) are welcome!

As I suspected that switch is one of the less common ones. They don't make a repro backing plate or any of the internal parts for that switch. But it is a very good one as you can see the "popular design" repro backing plate is entirely different. The "dimples" where the screw posts are should be cleaned so they make good contact when either the key or handle is rotated. I can't see any brass in those positions - can you? The other black dimples are resting spots where contacts are not to be made. Often the backing plate gets a slight warp & rubbing if across some fine sand paper is all that is needed to refresh it (but not to much). Lastly the tumbler could be cracked. I'm not in the business, but offer to repair these to help members. Will email you via the forum

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This switch has the same internal parts but they are held in place by an entirely different method. The smaller disk in my photo is upside down

[jiminbartow]

The coil box lid is essential for applying downward pressure to the 4 coil boxes to ensure a good contact with the bottom contacts in the coil box. You will need to order one.

Regarding the fiber switch discs, You can get slightly longer screws and grind them down so that when they are tight, they will protrude into the dimple, but lower than the plane of the dimple as the dimple holds the contact in place through all the vibration while driving. When grinding off the screws to the correct length, be sure to factor in the thickness of the wire connections.

Or, better yet, you can get new replacement switch parts for your original switch with the screws in the right place to accommodate the correct “Ron Patterson” wiring chart we all use. Use your original switch plate and switch housing that’s riveted to the switch plate. It is always best to use original parts that came on the car from the factory, not only for originality, but because the parts were made by the hands of Ford factory workers and they were made better. I always enjoy looking at a part on my ‘26 T coupe and know that it has been with the car and all its’ adventures for 97 years ever since leaving the factory.

Again. Do not remove the rivets to remove the housing. It is very difficult to find replacement rivets with the correct patina that only comes with age and the switch can be rebuilt without removing the housing.