New T owner, wanted to share my project

[RadRacer203]

New T owner here, just wanted to introduce myself and show a few pics of my car. I'm 26 years old, bought a '26 Coupe earlier this year that's been in storage since 1987, and I've been working on getting it back on the road and learning to drive it. So far I've done all the preventative maintenance, new tires, recovered the seat, etc and it's running well. Just fitted an aermore whistle to it, and planning on swapping in a Ruckstell axle over the winter and a higher compression head if I can find one. Just fighting a persistent issue of it draining the battery after a couple days, and trying to seal up some oil leaks right now. Hopefully it's going to be my daily driver come spring, and I have big road trip plans!

[CudaMan]

Very nice, welcome!

[Rich P. Bingham]

Steve Jelf would say, "Welcome to the affliction!" Your T will let you know what it needs as you go along, enjoy the journey!

[TXGOAT2]

A slow battery drain in a T is unusual. Assuming it has a stock electrical system with no added electrical accessories, about the only thing likely to drain the battery with the car sitting is the cutout relay on the generator, and if that sticks shut, it will very rapidly drain the battery.
The battery itself may be the problem, or dirt on top of the battery.

[RadRacer203]

A slow battery drain in a T is unusual. Assuming it has a stock electrical system with no added electrical accessories, about the only thing likely to drain the battery with the car sitting is the cutout relay on the generator, and if that sticks shut, it will very rapidly drain the battery.
The battery itself may be the problem, or dirt on top of the battery.

Thanks, I'll check that out. The electrical system is all stock, might all even be original. The cutout relay is just that little gold can on top of the generator, correct?

[Art M]

Welcome to the model t group. You will get a lot of support on this forum. If there are any model t owners near you, they are most likely willing to help you.

To start tracking down the electrical issue, start by disconnecting the battery at the post to determine if the battery is the problem. If ok, reconnect battery and disconnect the cutout at the battery side. Caution, do not drive the car with this disconnected, because if the generator was working, it won't be for very long. From there, I would look at the key switch.

Before installing a high compression head, check the compression on each cylinder.

Keep us informed on your progress and you will get a lot of help.

Art Mirtes

[Norman Kling]

Do as recommended with the battery. If you have an ammeter, check from the battery to the cable when disconnected. If you show current flowing, you have either a short or something is turned on drawing current. You can work your way toward the terminal block checking at every connection such as the starter switch and the terminal block. Finally you will find the culprit. If the battery remains disconnected for a few days and it gets low, the problem is the battery. If you find the problem to be the cutout, you can replace it with a new diode cutout. Just get one made for a T and not an A. Which brings me to another thought. A Model T has a negative ground at the battery. If the battery is reversed, the cutout will not work it will be connected all the time because the polarity is reversed. Likewise, if your battery is connected with negative ground and you happen to have a Model A cutout, it will do the same because the Model A has a positive ground.
I recommend you get the booklet on Electrical system, which the club publishes. It will help you with a lot of these issues. Welcome to the hobby. It is great to get the younger generation involved.
Norm

[Moxie26]

Your battery may have to be elevated a bit in the battery carrier. Newer batteries are not as tall as original equipment..... So the positive battery cable may be rubbing against the top metal portion of the battery carrier causing a short. Our Model T parts vendors do have wood battery boards to place in that battery carrier to elevate the battery. Congratulations and good luck ... enjoy your Model! T!

[havnfun]

Welcome to the addiction!
Most model T’s leak oil, they’re simply marking their territory !

[speedytinc]

That little gold can is likely to be one of those cheap repop mechanical generator killers.
Get a diode cutout before it fails. It could be the source of your current draw.

& welcome to the affliction.
What body style will you acquire next?
Nobody has just one T.

[TRDxB2]

You said that the car had been in storage since 1987, but you didn't say you replaced the battery. Did you?
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Your spark plugs, if Firestone Polonium, are somewhat of a collectors item. I'd save them for a show Best price on new spark plugs & wheel bearings is RockAuto.
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A cut-out is just a simple switch. If the cut-out contact points were sticking when the engine was shut off it would cause the generator to try to run like a motor - think you would notice that. It does not prevent the battery from overcharging. If you are thinking of replacing it get a Voltage Regulator instead. These are made by the Forum administrator - negative ground https://modeltstarters.com/product-cate ... s-cutouts/
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Your wire routing in the engine bay needs some securing also the white area on the harness needs to be investigated.

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note white tracer I added of wires going to headlights

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example

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routing

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[RadRacer203]

I'll check over all the electrical mentioned when I'm working on it next, probably next weekend. I did order a new diode for the cutout from Lang's so I'll do that anyway. The battery I have is the one that was in it when I got the car, but it tests good and held a charge for several weeks at least when my friend borrowed it for his Chevy, so I doubt that's an issue, or at least isn't a very pressing issue.

Those actually are Firestone Polonium spark plugs, and I've had a box on my shelf for years and was just waiting to put them on something! I've also got some other odds and ends to put on as well, like a Crystal Timer

[speedytinc]

If the cutout was closed, the generator couldnt motor still bolted in the motor, but it would get hot.
That you could notice.

[Oldav8tor]

Your nearest club contact is in Ferrisburgh
Green Mountain T’s
c/o Ralph Shepard <mayo_shep@msn.com>
Ferrisburgh, VT 05456-9872

I strongly recommend making contact with other Model T owners. They can be a great source of advice and parts.

[TXGOAT2]

If the battery is several years old, like over 3 years old, or if it has sat discharged, it is probably not much good, if any good at all. Old batteries decay whether they are used or not, and some older batteries have a lot of loose sediment in the bottom of the case and loose plate material. Handling them, or charging them, especially fast charging or applying jumper cables, can finish them off in any of several ways. Old batteries can self-discharge, and most won't deliver anywhere near their original cranking capacity even if they hold a charge. Many of them seep acid around the posts. A new, high quality battery is a good investment in reliability and easy starting.
Weak batteries are also hard on starters, and they can make generators work overtime. Starters work best and last longest when used with a good battery, and so do ignition systems. (I don't sell batteries, but I've put up with many junk batteries, and they're nothing but trouble!)

[TXGOAT2]

PS: I'd stay away from 12 volt batteries. The original six volt system works very well when it's in good condition. Your car looks to be a good solid original car. I'd want to keep it that way.

[RadRacer203]

PS: I'd stay away from 12 volt batteries. The original six volt system works very well when it's in good condition. Your car looks to be a good solid original car. I'd want to keep it that way.

Oh I definitely am not going to be converting to 12v, it works fine enough as is. Honestly the more I look at this car the better it gets, I haven't seen any pitting on any panel yet. My bet is it's a clean original car that got a repaint at some point, maybe in the 60s or 70s

[mtntee20]

Michael, I totally agree with all that has been posted above. One thing that has not been brought up: Battery Disconnect Switch. There have been instances where a T caught fire due to a shorted wire or switch. Some of these have been at very poor times and caused major damage or total loss of the car and garage.

I installed battery disconnects on both of our trucks. I know they are safe when I'm not around. Disconnects also prevent spectators from doing something stupid, like turning on the lights and leaving them on. I mounted the switches so as they would be totally hidden or at least less noticeable.

Original: NO, Added Safety: YES, Pain in the a** when you forget to turn them on: Definitely. I still recommend finding the problem and fixing it.

Welcome to the club. Glad to have you here. I love your car. Good Luck!

[RadRacer203]

Thanks! I'll definitely be on here with updates and probably some questions as I keep working. I do have a battery disconnect switch waiting to be installed, but I'm torn on how I should mount it. I was going to put it through the floor but that would be a pain when I have to take the floor out, I was also thinking of putting it though that small lip at the front under the seat, but I'm hesitant to cut a hole in such nice original metal. Could also do underneath, but that's extremely inconvenient

[jiminbartow]

Be very careful out on the highways. While a T is a very unique attention getter and fun to drive and be seen in, it still only cruises at 35 mph and no matter how good an attentive driver you are, most of today’s drivers aren’t. There are many distractions, with the radio, cd player, garmin direction finder, women putting on makeup, kiddies in the back seat, teenagers cutting up, etc. Heck. Some people even watch TV and read while driving. When a car going 70 mph comes up on you going 35, there is little time for him to react so please exercise extreme caution. Even the best, most experienced Model T drivers fall victim to the impatient, inattentive, disrespectful modern day driver who is in a hurry to get to wherever he want to be and will be rude to you if you are in his way.

By the way, I have had my 1926 coupe for 53 years since 1970, buying it when I was 16. It took, me 2 years to restore it. I used to drive it on the open roads, but now, I only drive it through the neighborhoods of my town. It has not been out in the rain since I have owned it. Welcome to the hobby. Jim Patrick

[Norman Kling]

I have had good with Auto Zone 6V Group 1 batteries. At one local store, they have them in stock most of the time. There is a date on the battery which tells you when it was made. So be sure it is fresh when you buy it. They also will honor the warantee if it needs to be replaced early.
One thing about driving the T, if you don't have modern turn signals and you use the hand signals, Right turn is not usually a problem, however some people think you are waving them to pass when you signal for a left turn, so watch out for that.
Norm

[RadRacer203]

I really want to find an AGM battery for this car, but it's turning out to be much more difficult than I expected to find one. Might be easier to modify the battery tray slightly and fit a group 2 battery instead, I'll have to take a look

[jiminbartow]

Like Norman said, I got the correct size 6V battery with the negative post on the left side from Auto Zone. No need to modify the battery or the metal 1926 Model T battery boxes sold by the Model T auto part dealers. Auto Zone is very good about standing behind their batteries. Jim Patrick

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[RajoRacer]

I believe the negative post should be on the right as you're looking down on the battery - the positive cable comes from the left.

[John Codman]

Hi Michael, as is often said: Welcome to the affliction. I don't mean to stir up the nest, but you can simplify things under the hood. A Model T with a properly functioning cooling system does not need a water pump (especially in Vermont). A water pump is usually added to band-Aid another problem. That problem is almost always a bad radiator. The horizontal fins become thermally detached from the vertical tubes. If the radiator has round vertical tubes it is either original, or is likely a very old replacement. What you will need if the issue is the radiator and you intend to drive the car is a modern, flat-tube radiator. Unfortunately, they are expensive as there is now only one supplier of the units. I have heard of having the radiator re-cored, but it will take someone other then me to tell you how to find a core. The water pump will not solve the overheating problem anyway. If the issue is the radiator not cooling properly, with the water pump, the flow rate of the coolant will be faster, and the coolant will spend even less time in the radiator.
Check the temperature at the top of the core or even in the top tank, and then again at the bottom tank (obviously with the engine running and warmed up). My relatively new radiator will drop the temperature just idling in the garage, by 60 degrees or more. Yours should be pretty close to that, if not, the radiator is the issue and the only satisfactory repair will be to replace or re-core the radiator. And yes - it is possible for a 90+ year-old T radiator to be original and not leak. The one that I removed from my '27 did just that. Sorry for the length. BTW: Steve Jelf would approve of your wheels and sadly, not mine.

[A Whiteman]

Hi Michael, welcome to the hobby!

It has been said above, but its true - Model Ts and oil leaks are pretty much the same thing

Enjoy your car and have fun.

Kind regards

Adrian Whiteman

[RadRacer203]

I'm not too worried about the cooling system at all, the radiator has a '39 date code on it and looks pretty m7ch perfect inside and out, I would bet it was gone through at some point. The water pump I know isn't necessary in the slightest, but I like having period accessories, and I plan on hopping up the motor a bit, so extra cooling can't hurt. As it sits, the temperature has never even gotten into the "normal running" temp of the motometer that I could see, so it's running very cool

[Art M]

I have a water pump. It isn't necessary. My radiator cools very well with out the pump. The radiator Is a low type with round tubes. I think the pump tends to prolong the radiator life by reducing hot spots in the engine. Just my opinion.

If you like the waterpump..... Keep it.

Art Mirtes

[RadRacer203]

I have a water pump. It isn't necessary. My radiator cools very well with out the pump. The radiator Is a low type with round tubes. I think the pump tends to prolong the radiator life by reducing hot spots in the engine. Just my opinion.

If you like the waterpump..... Keep it.

Art Mirtes

Yeah, that was kind of my opinion. It definitely doesn't need it, but it's already there and I bought a new fan belt with it in mind, so it's going to stay. Plus it means I'll never have to worry about overheating no matter what I'm doing!

[RadRacer203]

Worked on the T again today, got a new Waukesha Ricardo head installed, and it's a LOT faster now! We were also looking it over, and it turns out the engine in it is number matching, and still standard bore. I dunno how rare that is, but this is definitely a really low mile original. Unfortunately, disturbing the valve cover made it start leaking, and I definitely need some tuning work since the exhaust manifold was glowing red after the drive, and it boiled over while idling in the driveway

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Worked on the T again today, got a new Waukesha Ricardo head installed, and it's a LOT faster now! We were also looking it over, and it turns out the engine in it is number matching, and still standard bore. I dunno how rare that is, but this is definitely a really low mile original. Unfortunately, disturbing the valve cover made it start leaking, and I definitely need some tuning work since the exhaust manifold was glowing red after the drive, and it boiled over while idling in the driveway

Your spark may have been too retarded. Also, idling for an extended time can cause overheating.

[RadRacer203]

Too retarded? I thought it would overheat if it was too advanced? I'll probably have to give the block a good flush in the spring, but with the water pump it shouldn't overheat this quickly. I'll have to do a bit of digging

[mtntee20]

Since you took the exhaust and intake manifolds off to install the new head, you may have an intake manifold leak contributing to the red exhaust manifold. The easiest way to check for leaks is to start the engine, set it for a decent idle, and spray a bit of carb. cleaner at different points around the intake manifold gaskets. If the engine rpm changes, you have a leak at that point.

I took my delivery to a show. While unloading it in the dark, I could not believe how red the exhaust manifold was. As I got into the truck, it looked like a red light bulb was lit up when looking through the holes in the firewall. I advanced the timing more, dialed up the fuel spray needle and backed down on the throttle. That helped but not as much as I would have liked. I haven't been able to check for leaks yet, but I haven't driven it any more than absolutely necessary. Being that hot, I expect the manifold to be distorted, which it may have been when my best friend put the engine together. I don't know where he acquired the manifold nor if it was straight when he got it. He passed away, so I'll never know.

Good Luck,

[RadRacer203]

I did take off the manifolds and put on new copper gaskets cause I had a massive exhaust leak. Seems to be sealing fine now, although maybe the intake has a leak and the back 2 cylinders are running lean?

[EricMac]

I am late to the intro party but wanted to say welcome to the world of Ts. I like your coupe. Enjoy it!

[Norman Kling]

Another thing about the lead acid battery with the single rate of charge generator is the possibility of the battery either being undercharged or overcharged. If you drive a lot with the lights on, it might be under charged and if the lights are off most of the time, it could be overcharged. It is also true if you drive with the engine on magneto, you are not drawing anything from the battery, so it will charge a bit more than it would when running on battery. If you are overcharged, the acid water mixture in the battery can evaporate leaving the plates above the water line, so it is a good idea to occasionally check the fluid level and add distilled water to cover the plates. It is good to use a tool like a turkey baster to fill the cells so you don't get water all over the top of the battery.
Norm

[nicklm]

Michael,
Great to read your progress and what a great car.
I had a Model A in college in lower Vermont in the 60's to discover the battery could keep the car running and during the winters of 30 degrees below, the crank was the answer to start. The T and the A both start great in the winter after you learn what your car needs (timing, mixture). Breaking an arm is optional if you do not follow exact methods. The timing and mixture are also probably the cause of glowing manifold as the A did the same thing when very out of balance.
The best place for the battery cut off switch would seem to be right behind your heal on the seat rises. Let the switch handle be a simple switch that moves right and left so it is out of the way. The battery box on the coup is difficult to access every time you want to disconnect. (Remember to reset your clock and radio stations each time.) Winters in Vermont were not forgiving, as I remember, use caution. I left Vermont and drove to Los Angeles area in the A and then bought a 1926 Touring. Completely different animals and each has its "charm", it that is the right word. Still have the T but not the A.
Have great success with caution, especially breaks and black ice.
Nick

[RadRacer203]

Just placed an order for some new parts, my timer was apparently in really bad shape, so that may have been contributing to the overheating if it was off enough. I'll do some more digging on it after the holidays I think, it's probably just running too lean and I'm not used to having a manual spark advance yet. I think the engine bay is looking pretty slick now though, with the new head and pink Firestone Polonium plugs! Got a timer, some misc gaskets, some parts to convert my taillight to have a brake light, a generator cutoff, and some other odds and ends on the way. Might be installing an old Wilmo manifold too depending on how it cleans up. All in all, I'm really happy with how this thing is turning out, can't wait to start daily driving it in the spring!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

You might consider using these manifold gaskets instead of the one-piece version you currently have. They are the original style and help to maintain the straightness of your exhaust manifold. If your manifold is already warped, then you're stuck with the one-piece gasket.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3063-64.aspx

[Norman Kling]

One thing about a water pump, is that it is at a very low point on the water level so that any leak, even a small one can lower the coolant to the point where the car will overheat. So look often for leaks and always check coolant level immediately before you start the engine to be sure it has not leaked out. The normal coolant level is about 2 inches below the cap or about even with the Ford name on the front of the radiator shell. This level is when checking cold before you start the engine. It will rise to the top as the engine warms up and the water expands. So do not overfill nor let it run too low. I hope I explained this and did not confuse you.
Norm

[RadRacer203]

You might consider using these manifold gaskets instead of the one-piece version you currently have. They are the original style and help to maintain the straightness of your exhaust manifold. If your manifold is already warped, then you're stuck with the one-piece gasket.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3063-64.aspx

I don't think my manifold is leaking, although I'll definitely check. I just put on a new set of copper gaskets this past weekend because it was definitely leaking before.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

You might consider using these manifold gaskets instead of the one-piece version you currently have. They are the original style and help to maintain the straightness of your exhaust manifold. If your manifold is already warped, then you're stuck with the one-piece gasket.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3063-64.aspx

I don't think my manifold is leaking, although I'll definitely check. I just put on a new set of copper gaskets this past weekend because it was definitely leaking before.

I'm not suggesting that your current gaskets are leaking or that you need to change them. Just saying that the ones I linked to are known to work better than the ones shown in your picture. Just consider using the original style in my link the next time you need manifold gaskets.

[Billy Vrana]

Another thing to think about, if that car has been sitting 20-30 years you should probably replace the bands in the transmission. They break down with time, it'll come apart and block the oil galley. You won't feel or hear it until it's too late, then its bearings. That sure is a good looking car,

[Norman Kling]

My own experience with a water pump. The only T I had with a water pump was the first one I bought which had one on it when I became the owner. One January or possibly February day, we went into the mountains on a tour. We stopped at for a rest stop. (This is in California, so only snows high in the mountains, usually) It was a cold day and many of the members were standing in front of their radiators to keep warm. My radiator was cold because of the water pump. Later it went bad so I removed it and installed the original type inlet to the block and have had no problems with overheating nor problems with warming up on the colder days. Only overheating problem I had was one day when I didn't listen to my wife and when we had driven about 50 miles on a tour we stopped for lunch and she, " said you better check the water before we start back". I said,"it's fine, it hasn't been overheating". So we went back to the starting point of the tour. Then we started for home which was almost all uphill from there. As we climbed the first 5 miles or so, I noticed the motometer was moving above the circle, and knew we would have about 3 miles of level and then another mile uphill before the last mile which was quite level to home. So I continued. The motometer didn't come down but I thought, "just a short way now" and kept on going. About a mile from home it blew the headgasket and steam came out all over, so I pulled over to let it cool for an hour or so. Anyway, It was not because I didn't have the water pump, but because I had a slight leak at the small hole where the water goes from the block to the head right behind the exhaust manifold. This leak was caused because the location of that hole is on a corner of the head between two bolts but the last bolt in the back was bottomed out in the block and although the torque wrench read correctly, it was reading against the block but the head was not pressing down. A new gasket and a washer under the head of that bolt fixed the problem. Had to get a head gasket and new motometer. So check everything. You can find problems in the "darndest places".
Norm

[RadRacer203]

Another thing to think about, if that car has been sitting 20-30 years you should probably replace the bands in the transmission. They break down with time, it'll come apart and block the oil galley. You won't feel or hear it until it's too late, then its bearings. That sure is a good looking car,

Oh yeah, that was the first thing I did. Got it home and made it run, then drove like 25 feet to make sure it all worked and parked it till I changed the bands and cleaned out the oil pan

[ModelTMitch]

Welcome to the hobby mate!
I was 24 years old when I purchased my '24 touring, you're 26 with your '26 funny how the numbers align sometimes

Your car looks great! You'll grow to love her (and hate her)... actually scrub that, it's impossible to "hate" a Model T They're more like an old friend that will do anything for you! Owned mine since I was 24 (im 36 now), and she's never skipped a beat!

Enjoy!