New T owner looking for some advice

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:41 pm

Hello,
I recently purchased a 1918 Model T Roadster and thought it would be beneficial to join this forum since I am not very familiar with the Model T. The vehicle I bought is complete and seems to be all there. It doesn’t run but I was told it last ran about 15 years ago. The engine appears to be a later engine since it has electric start but I am not sure how to tell what year it is. I wanted to check compression on engine but when I crank over the engine by hand it wants to move forward and I cannot seem to find neutral. I pulled the cover off the top of the transmission and everything appears to move as it should. Would this be the clutch plates sticking together or could it be something else? Also, if I do need engine work done, is there somebody in the PNW that is reliable? I am in SW WA.

Thank you for the help!

Post by **RajoRacer** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:54 pm

Did you have the hand brake pulled back ? Straight up should be what neutral there is as it's a wet clutch so not the same as a friction clutch. Did you remove the band access door or the transmission cover itself ?????

I'm up north near Tacoma/Gig Harbor - retired but can assist if need be AFTER I get the 2 other T's out of my shop !

A better place to grab the front end would be up near the frame/spring connection.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:06 pm

Yes, I tried the hand brake but still no neutral. I tried different pedal positions between high and low but still no neutral. I believe I just removed the band access panel. It’s the one with the 6 screws, correct?

Good to know on where to tie down the front ends of model Ts. . I wasn’t too sure so I chocked the wheels to keep it from moving back and forth during transport. Thanks!

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:14 pm

Best to get someone near you who knows how to drive a T to help you start it and teach you to drive it. Otherwise you could get injured or injure someone else. The position of the left pedal is very important and if not adjusted correctly, you will either lose traction when in gear, or have no neutral. And the brake pedal must be adjusted correctly or your brake will either drag or no brakes. So have someone explain it to you and drive it around, then try driving yourself. Also the T will not stop as quickly as a modern car so you need to be careful about following distances etc. And also going downhill, it is harder to stop.
Norm

Post by **John kuehn** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:27 pm

It would really help if you get the Ford service manual for Model T’s. It’s good to know what NOT TO DO when learning about a T. Good advice here on the forum too!
As in the last post Model T’s don’t have real brakes! It’s best to learn to drive them on a big parking lot or on a country road. Hopefully there is some one in your area or a club that can you acquainted driving it. It’s definitely not like your modern vehicle and it’s best to expect it not to be.
Top speed for a stock T is around 35 MPH and too slow in town or on a main road.

Good luck with your new hobby and read all the information about them available from the T parts houses.

Post by **TRDxB2** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:41 pm

While you say that you purchased a 1918 doesn't mean its a 1918 just because its on a title or you were told that.
Engine were replaced so the engine serial number is only good to date the engine per https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm

Besides the Forum's experts there are other sources of information
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Tis is from the MTFCA Encyclopedia https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/
MAY 15
Rear axle hub design made to eliminate machining. New grease retainer cups needed. T-7687 generator to cutout wire changed to read "for repairs only" indicating that the cutout was now located on the generator.
MAY 19 Acc. 78, #420, Ford Archives
Starters on some open cars (appeared prior to this date). New windshield brackets on electric cars; the old type with the integral lamp brackets to be continued on the non-electric cars. (Oil lamps were not supplied on the starter-equipped open or closed cars.)
MAY 27 Acc. 235, Box 39, #431, Ford Archives
T4491 (Crank ratchet rivet) "Changed from a straight pin to a rivet, designed for cotter pin."
MAY 28 Engine production records, Ford Archives
Last non-starter engine block made on this date.
JUN 5 Acc. 78, #436, Ford Archives
All cars to have starter-type engines; trucks to get whatever non-starter engines are left.
Valve cover plates now to be held in place with a screw instead of a stud and nut.
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This web site has all kinds of Model T literature, original service manuals,parts lists etc that are downloadable as well
http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm
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https://modeltfordfix.com/
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Get a catalogue from Mac's (not the cheapest to order from) they have neat exploded diagrams in it for reference https://www.macsautoparts.com/catalog-options
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Chaffins online catalogue is also downloadable and has excellent pictures of parts https://www.chaffinsgarage.com/
Lots of places to order parts from Chaffins, Langs, Snyders, SnJ etc prices petty much the same so its down to shipping charges
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The MTFCA forum link to exploded diagrams app.php/gallery/album/5
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Also must brows site https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html
-- and he has this as well "Taking a Model T out of Mothballs" https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG93.html

Learn to search the MTFCA direcltly (only the current version since 2019) or Google ( search words MTFCA ) for your answer - there will be many

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:01 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Although I’m new to Model Ts, I am not new to vintage automobiles and motorcycles. I’ve driven a Model T a few times so I am familiar with starting and driving one. I am just not familiar with the drivetrain or what would cause there to be no neutral. I did order a Model T service manual but have not receive it yet. I did a lot of searching for an answer to my question before I joined and posted here. Maybe someone here will have the answer or maybe I can figure it out after I get the manual. I am not trying to start the car right now. I just want to be able to crank it over and check compression before I pull the head off. Seems like that’s the best place to start. Thank you TRDxB2 for all the links. I will dig thru those. Whether my T is actually a 1918 or if it is only a year on the title is yet to be determined. It’s not really all that important to me at this time but I will eventually figure out exactly what I have. Right now I just would like to take the proper steps to get it running and driving. Just need to determine what will need to be done to achieve this.

Engine serial number says it’s from Sept 1918

Post by **speedytinc** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:20 pm

Lift 1 rear wheel. Put the parking brake lever forward. Do your compression tests.
You will have taken the dragging clutch out of the equation.

Post by **JTT3** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:35 pm

JR I’m sure you know but just in case have the throttle all the way down when checking your compression.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:15 pm

Never hesitate to ask for help or advice. This forum is a great place for that. Also, hook up with a club if there is one near enough.

Post by **John kuehn** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:34 pm

Well it’s good to know you have some knowledge about Model T’s. You may already know but you’ll soon find that lots of T parts will interchange as you find out about the engine. The demountable rims on your car may have been added for easier tire replacement. LOTS of T owners went to the demountable tires and rims for an update. You may find some aftermarket parts on it too. The radiator looks like it may be a honeycomb aftermarket. Good luck and take your time but I know that’s hard to do! Lots of info is out there as others have stated!

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:52 pm

When I got my T a few months ago I was told the clutch was stuck. I looked through the forum at what to do and decided the easiest thing was to put the rear end of the car on jack stands so I could get the engine sorted out first. I ran the engine many times with the wheels spinning and magically that somehow broke it loose. Probably caused by oil splashing, vibration, and just some load. Also, I did mix a full quart of transmission fluid into the oil when I filled it up the first time.

Good luck! One way or another it will eventually brake loose

Steve

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:07 pm

Thanks for the help. Maybe I’ll just get it running and see what happens.

Post by **Mark Nunn** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:32 pm

Why do you want to pull the head? Is something obviously wrong? I would not remove the head without cause and a plan. Old and rusty head bolts can snap and spoil your day. I don't want to sound negative. I'm pulling for you and suggest caution.

Post by **Art M** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:38 pm

My 23 touring was stored for 23 years. During this time, The clutch plates were stuck when i got it out of storage. My friend rocked the car back and forth. Eventually the clutch became free. We cleaned the coil points, spark plugs, carberature, aired the tires then started the engine. I foolishly used a 12 volt battery to jump start the engine. The mag worked well, so I took it for a short ride.

You are much further ahead than I was at that point. After you get it running I am sure you will enjoy it.

Art Mirtes

Dave Sullivan · Post by **Dave Sullivan** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:49 pm

JR, I would jack up the rear, chock the front wheels securely, and try to start it. Then, if you can't get it to start, it's time to diagnose, and make repairs. Don't fix it, if it ain't broke. Dave in Bellingham

Post by **jiminbartow** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:52 pm

Here are a couple of informative articles that will give you the basics your Model T. The first article is about the development of the T and the second article is on how to drive the Model T and some things to beware of. Jim Patrick

Post by **jiminbartow** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:54 pm

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:35 am

Mark Nunn wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:32 pm
Why do you want to pull the head? Is something obviously wrong? I would not remove the head without cause and a plan. Old and rusty head bolts can snap and spoil your day. I don't want to sound negative. I'm pulling for you and suggest caution.

I am wanting to check condition of motor and refresh at least the top end if it needs it. I’m not worried about removing the head bolts. I’ve taken apart at least half a dozen flatheads and removed head studs on the early V8s. This little 4 banger with a fraction of the bolts doesn’t scare me. I’m not going to just top off the gas tank, throw a new battery in it and take it for a spin. As good as my life insurance is, I’d rather take the time to ensure things are mechanically sound before I hit the road. This T has been sitting a long time, and I don’t know much about its history before it was parked. Besides, I would rather fix something before it breaks rather than after.

Post by **TRDxB2** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:32 am

JR Ewing wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:41 pm
Hello,
......and I cannot seem to find neutral. I pulled the cover off the top of the transmission and everything appears to move as it should. .....

Thank you for the help!

Hope this helps

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:16 am

Three books essential to the new T owner. You can get them from Snyder’s or Lang’s:

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Post by **speedytinc** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:31 am

Getting it running with fresh oil will eventually wash out the sticky stuff in the clutch pack.
Good luck & welcome to the affliction.

Post by **CudaMan** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:29 am

Lots of good stuff here:

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:44 am

A few helpful diagrams:

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Post by **KWTownsend** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:58 am

Joshua,
I sent you an email. Give me a call.
Keith

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:24 am

A couple things can cause the clutch disks to stick. One is thick oil between the disks which can enter when it is parked with the brake lever in park or neutral. As the oil gets thick in colder weather it will cause the disks to stick. Best when you park for long periods to leave the lever forward into high position which will force the oil out when it is hot and will not coo off between the disks. This is especially true in the old non detergent oil with single weight is used, which was the norm many years ago.
The other thing which will cause to stick is worn grooves in the brake drum in which the disks are located. Those grooves will cause disks to stick and a combination of cold oil and grooves can make them very hard to dislodge. If you can jack up the rear wheels and try to start with the parking lever forward. after you get it running and warmed up a while, then , with engine idling, try pulling back the parking lever. If it stops the engine, the disks are still stuck, but if it stops the rear wheels and the engine still runs, your disks are unstuck.
Norm

Post by **DanTreace** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:28 am

Jim

Your last picture upload shows a cylinder head bolt tightening sequence which isn't the best for a Model T.

This one is much better, and meets the Ford Service Manual instructions. The center bolts of the head must be torqued first, where the cylinders are spaced narrow, the smallest part of the gasket, then work out random in a sequence. Best to always tighten from the center row of bolts.

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JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:53 am

Thanks everyone! This is much needed information. Lots learned already and plenty more to come.

Post by **Craig Leach** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:56 am

Hi Joshua,
I'm with Steven K., I find the Occam's razor method is best.
Craig.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:29 pm

Thank you Dan. As always, Jim Patrick

Post by **Scott C.** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:34 pm

Something else, that no one has mentioned yet, is to tear down the rear axle and get rid of the old Babbit thrust washers before they fail. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. Because they will fail, they are old and fragile. If you are proactive and take care of this upfront, it will save you damaging the other parts. Thus, making it much cheaper to repair. Trust the voice of experience.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:50 pm

When the lever is pulled all the way back, you will notice that the clutch pedal goes down a little toward the floor. This is the lever automatically putting the C pedal in neutral (halfway down between low gear (all the way down) and high gear (all the way up), while also engaging the rear drum brakes. This holds the car in place while you start it. If you push the lever forward a little, it keeps the car in neutral, while releasing the rear drum brakes, allowing you to manually push the car. All the way forward, and the clutch pedal goes into high gear. If the car is running, you must press the C pedal halfway down, putting her in neutral, before pushing the lever forward. Now she is ready to drive. Push the C pedal all the way down to move forward, let up on the C pedal to put in neutral before engaging the R or B pedals and while engaging these pedals, your foot must remain on the C pedal to keep it in neutral while going in reverse or braking.

It is essential that the lever is adjusted so that you have a strong neutral when the lever is pulled all the way back or the car will creep forward when running. This, you do not want! Many a past T owner has been pinned against he back wall of the garage because of this and many a T has crumpled front fenders, also due to this. Jim Patrick

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:01 pm

There are multiple clutch plates that should freely move by eachother. If the lever has been set for a long time, compressing these plates against eachother, the oil between these plates may have coagulated, causing them to stick together, resulting in no neutral. You may be able to dislodge them with Gunk Motor flush. It will also clean the rest of the inside of the engine of old sticky oil. Jim Patrick

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:33 pm

The hand lever doesn’t seem to be adjusted properly. The wheel brakes engage before it can engage the clutch. I have printed off the instructions on how to adjust this. Also, I bet the clutch plates are just stuck together since the car has been sitting such a long time.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:11 pm

Joshua - was the car parked with the hand brake pulled back ? That surely could congeal the clutch plates together.

Barteldes · Post by **Barteldes** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:46 pm

overwhelmed yet? lol whatever you do don't accidentally drop anything in that transmission access cover like a screw or the key to the car. and anytime you want to do something simple like remove the starter.. DONT! just ask these guys first there's innocent things you can mess up if you don't know how.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:10 pm

Good point, Bill. Whenever working on the transmission, like changing the bands, get several handfuls of rags and stuff them inside on each side of the transmission to catch anything you might drop. One of the most common, problems is dropping small items such as band bolts and washers. It sinks to the bottom of the oil pan and is very tricky to get out, but it MUST be retrieved before you can move on. Also, before removing the transmission access door, remove the key and store it elsewhere until the access door is back in place and secured. The key is right above the transmission door and can easily get knocked out and fall into the open transmission. Jim Patrick

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:24 pm

RajoRacer wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:11 pm
Joshua - was the car parked with the hand brake pulled back ? That surely could congeal the clutch plates together.

I have no way of knowing this, but it certainly is possible. Do Model T owner not park with this brake on, or do they leave it disengaged and chock the wheels?

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:27 pm

Barteldes wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:46 pm
overwhelmed yet? lol whatever you do don't accidentally drop anything in that transmission access cover like a screw or the key to the car. and anytime you want to do something simple like remove the starter.. DONT! just ask these guys first there's innocent things you can mess up if you don't know how.

Nope! Should I be? I'm not new to vintage vehicles, just Model Ts. I've been restoring vintage cars, trucks, motorcycles and even airplanes professionally for the past 24 years. Just never a Model T.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:29 pm

jiminbartow wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:10 pm
Good point, Bill. Whenever working on the transmission, like changing the bands, get several handfuls of rags and stuff them inside on each side of the transmission to catch anything you might drop. One of the most common, problems is dropping small items such as band bolts and washers. It sinks to the bottom of the oil pan and is very tricky to get out, but it MUST be retrieved before you can move on. Also, before removing the transmission access door, remove the key and store it elsewhere until the access door is back in place and secured. The key is right above the transmission door and can easily get knocked out and fall into the open transmission. Jim Patrick

I can see how anything dropped might be hard to find... it's a pretty deep space. However, I dont have to worry about dropping the key in the transmission. The car didn't come with one! Maybe that's why it won't start.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:36 pm

Most of us park our T's with the parking brake off for any length of time so as to squeeze the oil out of the clutch plates - makes starting the car a bit easier when cold out especially by hand !

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:20 am

That makes sense. Thanks.

Here’s another question… my car is a 1918 but at some point someone added a later transmission with electric start and a battery, but no generator. Should a generator have been added? Should I add one?

Post by **speedytinc** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:48 am

If your block is 18, you dont have a mount for it. If a later block, then, yes.
Show a picture of the right front side of the block. Behind the timer.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:01 am

I will take a picture when I get to the shop later but I don’t recall seeing any provisions for a generator. Should I consider adding one or will things work fine as is? Is it capable of providing a charge to the battery or will I just have to trickle charge it when not in use? Forgive my ignorance, I’m still learning about the electrical system on pre-electric start Fords.

Post by **speedytinc** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:53 am

You can use a rectifier to charge your battery from a working magneto. I have built 2. They produce about 3 amps @ 12V.
You can run total loss. Limit electric starts. A T will run several days or more on a full size charged battery.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:09 pm

Yep, no generator mount. I may have to look into the rectifier but the total loss doesn’t sound like an issue to me.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:03 pm

RajoRacer wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:36 pm
Most of us park our T's with the parking brake off for any length of time so as to squeeze the oil out of the clutch plates - makes starting the car a bit easier when cold out especially by hand !

JR,

Not just with the parking brake off, but actually with the stick all the way forward, in high gear. You don't have to chock the wheels, since the car is in gear. Just remember to pull back on the stick before starting!

That said, I never do this and have had no troubles. But if it works for some, then it's the right thing to do.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:07 pm

JR Ewing wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:20 am
That makes sense. Thanks.

Here’s another question… my car is a 1918 but at some point someone added a later transmission with electric start and a battery, but no generator. Should a generator have been added? Should I add one?

The transmission does not necessarily need to be a later one to add a starter. What would be later is the hogshead, (i.e. transmission cover), the flywheel, the clutch pedal, and the magneto coil ring.

Looks like a very cool car! Show us a bunch more pictures!

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:18 pm

I have a 1917 - I added the starter but of course, the block is not cast to accommodate a generator. I chose to go with a John Regan magneto charger. It's simply a diode and a light bulb connecting the battery and mag post on the battery box. John produced a nice little circuit board that does the job but I don't know if he's still selling them. The charger keeps my Odyssey battery up just fine...I only need to put a charger on it if I've run the headlights excessively. I went most of this touring season without having to charge it.

Something to consider - less hassle than a total loss system.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:33 pm

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:18 pm
I have a 1917 - I added the starter but of course, the block is not cast to accommodate a generator. I chose to go with a John Regan magneto charger. It's simply a diode and a light bulb connecting the battery and mag post on the battery box. John produced a nice little circuit board that does the job but I don't know if he's still selling them. The charger keeps my Odyssey battery up just fine...I only need to put a charger on it if I've run the headlights excessively. I went most of this touring season without having to charge it.

Something to consider - less hassle than a total loss system.

charger.jpeg

Hi Tim! Where does that mount? Is the light visible when in use, or is the whole thing tucked away under the floorboards?

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:40 pm

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:18 pm
I have a 1917 - I added the starter but of course, the block is not cast to accommodate a generator. I chose to go with a John Regan magneto charger. It's simply a diode and a light bulb connecting the battery and mag post on the battery box. John produced a nice little circuit board that does the job but I don't know if he's still selling them. The charger keeps my Odyssey battery up just fine...I only need to put a charger on it if I've run the headlights excessively. I went most of this touring season without having to charge it.

Something to consider - less hassle than a total loss system.

charger.jpeg

Thanks. That sounds more practical and easier than having to tend to the battery often. Would I use a 6v or a 12v battery with this setup?

Post by **speedytinc** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:49 pm

Either battery voltage.
The John Reagan device mounts on the coli box mag/battery contact posts.
It lights up your engine compartment as it regulates the power to the battery.
If you have a working mag, its a no brainer product.

Post by **YellowTRacer** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:12 pm

Too much to write. If you want to call me I can clear the air on you're neutral problem. Simple!

Ed aka #4

Post by **YellowTRacer** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:13 pm

Phone number would help. 510 581 4911

Ed aka #4

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:12 pm

Here’s my carb. It’s a bronze Kingston L4. I’ve been reading that these can be a good carb choice as is the Holley. Just like everything else with this T, I am unsure of its condition and I don’t know anything about these carburetors. I am sure they are somewhat simple but am also wondering if there are little tricks to rebuilding them, adjusting them and getting them to operate well. Makes me wonder if I should send it to someone who specializes in these carbs. Thoughts? If I do decide to send it out, who do you all recommend?

Thanks!!!

Post by **TRDxB2** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:48 pm

Posted on January 31, 2019 by Royce Peterson
Kingston introduced the final variant of it’s L series carburetor for the Model T Ford at the beginning of the 1922 model year. It was the iconic Kingston L4, used on millions of Model T’s and TT trucks from 1922 – 1927. A good performing carburetor, it provided years of trouble free motoring and simple design that could be repaired easily. Let’s take a look at how to restore one.
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Repairing a Kingston L4 Carburetor for your Model T Ford
https://modeltfordfix.com/repairing-a-k ... el-t-ford/
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JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:23 am

Thanks. I did come across that article when searching for answers. Very helpful. I will have to open up my carb tomorrow and see if the float is brass and if it’s usable.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:43 am

You might check in with Corey Walker in Texas - he posts on here & check the classifieds for his contact.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:38 am

I have not seen a bronze Kingston L4. The one I have looks like the one in the pictures posted by Frank. Mine is cast iron. A weak point on the Kingston and on the NH is the fitting where the fuel line enters. Be careful to use something like Teflon tape or a fuel proof sealer when you install and very carefully tighten just enough to keep it from leaking. Over tightening can crack the carburetor body making it useless.
Norm

Post by **RajoRacer** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 am

Norm - one should not use Teflon tape with gasoline.

Post by **John kuehn** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:40 am

There is a yellow Teflon tape made for gas fittings. It’s supposed to work.

Post by **speedytinc** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:17 pm

No one should use Teflon tape.
I have had many people crack the inlet casting on carb bodies using Teflon tape.
Use permatex.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:31 pm

The yellow tape is for "natural gas" - not liquid as I understand it !

John Codman · Post by **John Codman** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:46 pm

If you can work on airplanes, a simple 1 bbl updraft carburetor should pose no problems for you.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:22 pm

John Codman wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:46 pm
If you can work on airplanes, a simple 1 bbl updraft carburetor should pose no problems for you.

I've only done metalwork for vintage airplanes. I wouldn't dare touch the fuel system on one of them. I know with early Ford V8 carburetors, there are guys that specialize in rebuilding them. They know little tricks to make them work as best as possible, tricks I do not know, so I send them out. I know I can rebuild this Kingston, but I am wondering if it would be close to the quality of a rebuild from a specialist. If not, it might be better off sending it out. Plus I can use that time to focus on elsewhere on the car.

Post by **Mikerobison** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:22 pm

If you end up needing engine work I recommend Rick Carnegie -Strong Engine 509-891-6461 Otis Orchards, Wa

Post by **RajoRacer** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:07 pm

I heard Rick closed up shop ???????????????

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:10 pm

Mikerobison wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:22 pm
If you end up needing engine work I recommend Rick Carnegie -Strong Engine 509-891-6461 Otis Orchards, Wa

I spoke to Rick earlier this year about redoing the babbits in a '34 Flathead V8 engine I have. Hopefully he hasn't closed up since then. He was the only one somewhat close (about 6 hours one way) to me that would do the babbit work.

Post by **Duey_C** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:24 pm

Nice car! Lesser men might be overwhelmed with all these excellent responses but you take it in stride and have done 1/2 the research already!

Only thing I could possibly add is about the ?oil line? in your pic if that's what it is. (My red arrow.) Accessory oiler on the mag post perhaps.
When I got my '18 with a later engine there was an accessory oil line installed in about the same position BUT where it was screwed into was a blind hole.

I moved it.

The internal oil line was also plugged so the engine suffered a bit.
That's for another day. If you put oil in from the front, you'll fill the troughs to get you going.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:43 pm

Thanks! Yeah, it’s been interesting, but fun. I wish I had more time to work on it. Just been learning a lot. I believe that oil line runs to the Ford Faithful oiler. I haven’t learned much about that but it’s pretty obvious what it does. I have a feeling someone will educate me on it. Thanks for your comments.

Post by **John kuehn** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:17 pm

Hello again
Your T was upgraded back in the day! This is what people would do to upgrade here and there to improve their car. More than a few bought accessories that got to be abundant for a Model T. Your car probably has the original engine it since it was a non-starter and generator car to begin with. Have fun!

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:30 pm

The serial number on the engine is within the 1918 range.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:58 pm

A friend of mine had a Kingston L4 - we replaced some parts and followed the instructions but dang if we could never get it to run right. He missed half of his first multi-day tour with carb problems. His solution was to buy a Holley NH from Russ Potter. Worked great out of the box and cured his troubles!

My car came with a Holley G - I also had it rebuilt by Russ Potter. Afterwards it started and ran great. Later I had reason to have my transmission repaired by the same folks who had previously rebuilt the engine and tranny. Before sending it out of the shop they put it on a dyno and run it for you. Just for fun they ran it with my G and a stock NH. Look at the chart below and you'll be surprised by the difference. Result, I bought a rebuilt NH from Russ Potter and then replaced the float valve with one of Scott Conger's excellent "full-flow" valves. Now I have a great running, reliable carb.

Also - good warning about not over-tightening the full inlet elbow. I've been told to NEVER use teflon tape on any aircraft connections, fuel or otherwise, so I don't use it on my vehicles. I use Permatex 56521 designed for the purpose.

To keep my wife happy I do whatever I can not to be "FORD" (found off road, dead) on a tour. So far, so good.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:12 pm

Oops! Forgot to mention. Since the Regan charger is connected between the magneto and the battery the question is often raised as to what happens if the diode shorts? Connecting DC directly to the mag should NEVER be done, as it can de-magnitize the magnets. Short answer is, if the diode shorts (I had that happen once, perplexing John) - the bulb quickly burns out, protecting the mag. If you do burn out a bulb, check the diode before simply putting in a new bulb. With the low current / voltage running thru that bulb it should last almost forever, similar to the lightbulb that has been burning in a California Fire Station since 1901.

ADDED INFO: You want to be careful not to route any spark plug wires near the "Hot Shot" circuit. A jumping spark can take out your diode.

Before John came out with his nifty circuit board I had bought a thin piece of nylon sheet and was going to mount the socket and diode to it, simply soldering small wires to make connections. My plan was to span the two terminals like John did. I was simply going to solder islet connectors to the wire ends that went over the posts. Google "Regan" or "Fun Projects" Hot Shot Charger.

BTW - all the arcane knowledge you have to learn to work on a Model T is a big part of the fun. Fortunately the car is simple enough that a moderately mechanically-inclined guy (like me) can understand and work on it. I just put on my farmer hat and get out some baling wire.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:00 pm

Tim, thank you for that information. It certainly helps.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:04 pm

Another area I am learning about is the timer. I am not sure if this current one worked as is or anything about it for that matter. I’ve seen a few different brands of timers for sale online and wondering if I should run what I got or if I should replace it or upgrade to something else. I appreciate all input. Also, if I’m asking for too much info, just tell me to get lost. Thanks all!

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:31 pm

The timer doesn't look too terrible. Clean it up nicely and show us what's under all the gunk.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:43 pm

That kind works well if you keep it clean, the contacts are clean and it is centered. There is a tool sold by the vendors which fits where the cap runs in the timing cover which must be centered with the camshaft. Use a non conductive oil without any graphite or moly in it. Regular engine oil should work. The new day timer has a brush which runs on the front of the cover and also is very good. Hardly ever needs to be cleaned and it does not need oil. The Anderson timer has a flaper for the brush and runs on contacts inside the cover. Each type needs the correct brush with cap made for that type timer.
Norm

Post by **Mark Nunn** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:10 pm

The phenolic material inside the timer appears to be maroon in color. That would indicate a Tiger Timer, which is a good roller type. I have one that has nice and smooth roller surface and it works very well. Having smooth transitions between the metal contacts and maroon material is important to keep the roller from bouncing. I would clean and use it unless the roller contact surface is rough.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:26 pm

I have put many thousands of miles on a reproduction New Day timer from Tip Top Timers of Spokane Valley, WA. Mark Hutchinson <hutchmc@comcast.net>. He's associated with Spokane's Antique Auto Ranch.
Tip Top makes Anderson and New Day Timers that are excellent quality in my opinion. The New Day is simple, does not require lubrication, just clean the dust out and brighten the contacts with some very fine sandpaper now and then. Also, it looks like your camshaft seal (behind the timer) is the old felt type. Get a modern neoprene seal from one of the vendors and throw the brass disc away that rides between the felt seal and the brush. Put a very thin run of UltraBlack sealer around the metal outer edge of the neoprene seal. Buy or borrow a centering tool and check that the timing cover is indeed centered on the camshaft. They have a little wiggle room and can be off center, causing some timers to run poorly. The New Day is probably the most forgiving of misalignment.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:55 pm

That’s good to know and something to consider. I’ll have to make sure my cover is centered. I think I saw a tool that can be purchased for this. Probably easy enough to make one in the lathe as well. Seems like I should replace my timer. At least one of the contacts is pretty choppy and the rest are smooth but uneven to the surrounding material.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:35 pm

Hi JR
Different opinions for different types of timers as there is there is people! Your timer has some wear all right but might run OK to start up your T. The reproduction roller timers nowdays aren’t that bad and neither are the Repro New Days. The roller is the original style that Ford used and the New Day was a aftermarket wiper type that probably is the most used over the years besides the Anderson style timer.
Either one of these will get you going and work pretty well.
Just remember others will have opinions but these two that are mentioned will get you going and work well. You can learn about your T along the way and make any other choices later.

Snyder’s antique auto parts has both styles.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:24 pm

That appears to be an original Ford timer - runway's a bit rough which will cause roller bounce at higher rpm. I true timers up with this fixture for my lathe. I have a few NOS rollers if you need one. The centering tool that is made reference to here can be had in 2 styles - don't waste your $'s on the smaller diameter one - you want the larger one that centers the timer case on the timing cover !

Mark N. - the Tiger timer has a tin oiler cover with an internal spring holding it tight - that's a Ford timer.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:02 pm

The flip top on Ford timers is a detail I missed. The Tigers had the spring loaded tin cover. I still have one of those that’s fair shape I changed out in the Tiger timer box it came in.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:02 am

I did come across and article showing a timer being resurfaced in a lathe. I thought about it but would probably spend more time on a fixture than it's worth, since I don't plan to turn many timers.

I didn't realize there was two types of centering tools, a large and small. Which one is the large one? I will probably just buy one versus machining one, we'll see...

Powerwagonmaniac1 · Post by **Powerwagonmaniac1** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:21 am

Hey Josh if you need some help with your T give me a call, Chris 503 896-0046 or Clayton, Mrmodelt on the forum, 971-645-1524. Clayton is in Vancouver and I live in Beaverton Oregon just across the river. Keith Townsend can help as well he lives in Gresham.

Check out Rose City Model T Club, our family has been members for 50+ years.

Tin tillie our 1919 Touring get driven lots and lots of miles in the warmer months.

[attachment=0]20140601_164548_IMG_1314.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=1]20180325_191820_IMG_7241.JPG[/attachment]

Post by **Ed Fuller** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:16 am

Hey Steve!

I really like your timer fixture setup for your lathe!

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:33 am

I can't take the credit for it's construction - my good friend (now deceased) master machinist Otis Clinton made it many years ago !

Distagon2 · Post by **Distagon2** » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:07 pm

Otis Clinton! I spent some time with Otis back when I lived in Washington. I also spent some MONEY with Otis, as he had quite the stash of NOS parts. His place was like a candy store to a Model T guy. Today I was going through some Model T parts and lo and behold, some new pedal shafts machined by Otis Clinton! (Sorry for the off-topic)

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:28 am

Yes , we became good friends and I ended up with their '19 Centerdoor, some KRW tools and alot of the remainder of NOS parts !

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:36 am

The world needs more Otis Clintons.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:52 pm

Powerwagonmaniac1 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:21 am
Hey Josh if you need some help with your T give me a call, Chris 503 896-0046 or Clayton, Mrmodelt on the forum, 971-645-1524. Clayton is in Vancouver and I live in Beaverton Oregon just across the river. Keith Townsend can help as well he lives in Gresham.

Check out Rose City Model T Club, our family has been members for 50+ years.

Tin tillie our 1919 Touring get driven lots and lots of miles in the warmer months.

20140601_164548_IMG_1314.JPG

20180325_191820_IMG_7241.JPG

Thanks Chris. I appreciate it. I think I’ve seen pictures of Clayton’s lil’ chopped roadster online. Such a neat car. Keith reached out to me as well to provide some help. We talked on the phone for a bit. It’s so refreshing how welcoming and helpful people are on this forum. Makes this adventure even more enjoyable. Thanks!

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:18 pm

I had a little time today to work on this project so I decided to test the coils. I initially thought about sending them in for a rebuild but was curious if they were any good. All but one buzzed and created a good spark at the spark plug. The one that did not work had dirty contacts. I cleaned the contacts and it worked just like the others. I’ll have to clean the contacts on the other three just to be thorough, and I should see what the procedure is to set these contacts. I think I’ll hold off on sending these coils in for now. Maybe this week, if parts show up, I can see if it’ll run.

Post by **speedytinc** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:04 pm

For long life & low maintenance, have the caps replaced with new ones. Then have them set with an ECCT.
One of the coil rebuilders will do a great job. Well worth the money to have a pro change the caps.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:31 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:04 pm
For long life & low maintenance, have the caps replaced with new ones. Then have them set with an ECCT.
One of the coil rebuilders will do a great job. Well worth the money to have a pro change the caps.

I’m sure you’re right. I’ll plan to send them in.

Post by **DHort** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:20 pm

JR

Have you considered an E-timer or an I-timer. I have a brand new Anderson under my back seat in case my I-timer breaks down. The I-timer is one of the best things I ever bought. Runs better and climbs hills like a pro.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:41 pm

DHort wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:20 pm
JR

Have you considered an E-timer or an I-timer. I have a brand new Anderson under my back seat in case my I-timer breaks down. The I-timer is one of the best things I ever bought. Runs better and climbs hills like a pro.

I’ve come across the i-timer when trying to decide which timer to buy. I quit looking at it when I saw it was over $400. I kinda like the thought of running more of an original style anyway versus some modern version. I still can’t decide which timer to buy. There are several types and there doesn’t seem to be a favorite among owners, with lots of varying opinions regarding timers.

JR Ewing · Post by **JR Ewing** » Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:47 pm

Got another question if you all don’t mind. I’ve decided to rebuild the coil box. The wood and contacts looked to be in decent shape but I pulled it out and found that the board had a decent bow to it. This is probably the reason the previous owner jammed so many wooden shims in between the box and coils. I ordered the full rebuild kit and I have been reading through previous posts discussing a coil box rebuild. I came across a post that talked about soldering the contacts to the carriage bolts. I understand the reasoning, but I am just wondering if this was done by Ford as well. I’m also wondering if there should be any concern of annealing the contacts. I doubt the bronze will get hot enough to do so, but just wanted to get some opinions on doing it this way. The box that was in my car did not have soldered contacts.

Other than that, I’m making progress. My coils and carburetor are out for rebuild. I have plenty of parts on the way to hopefully get this thing running. I’m still hoping to find some used tires just because new will stand out like a sore thumb on this vehicle, but I’ve still got plenty to do before I’ll need roadworthy tires on it anyways. Thanks!

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:44 am

JR Ewing wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:47 pm
Got another question if you all don’t mind. I’ve decided to rebuild the coil box. The wood and contacts looked to be in decent shape but I pulled it out and found that the board had a decent bow to it. This is probably the reason the previous owner jammed so many wooden shims in between the box and coils. I ordered the full rebuild kit and I have been reading through previous posts discussing a coil box rebuild. I came across a post that talked about soldering the contacts to the carriage bolts. I understand the reasoning, but I am just wondering if this was done by Ford as well. I’m also wondering if there should be any concern of annealing the contacts. I doubt the bronze will get hot enough to do so, but just wanted to get some opinions on doing it this way. The box that was in my car did not have soldered contacts.

Other than that, I’m making progress. My coils and carburetor are out for rebuild. I have plenty of parts on the way to hopefully get this thing running. I’m still hoping to find some used tires just because new will stand out like a sore thumb on this vehicle, but I’ve still got plenty to do before I’ll need roadworthy tires on it anyways. Thanks!

JR,

Hopefully, you bought the plastic coilbox rebuild kit and not the wooden one.

skyhunter · Post by **skyhunter** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:35 pm

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:18 pm
I have a 1917 - I added the starter but of course, the block is not cast to accommodate a generator. I chose to go with a John Regan magneto charger. It's simply a diode and a light bulb connecting the battery and mag post on the battery box. John produced a nice little circuit board that does the job but I don't know if he's still selling them. The charger keeps my Odyssey battery up just fine...I only need to put a charger on it if I've run the headlights excessively. I went most of this touring season without having to charge it.

Something to consider - less hassle than a total loss system.

charger.jpeg

I want one of those!!