Need some advice

[vping]

Purchased a decent split rim, refinished it and upon assembly, we stripped the bolt that holds the split rim together.

Has this happened to anyone and what is the solution?

This was the last step before reassembly and putting on the car.

[Larry]

You could tap new threads and use a new bolt.
You would need to remove your tire tube and flap before you did that or flip that portion of the rim off To ensure you did not get any metal shavings in inside your tire.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Vincent,
If you can drill ( may not be necessary) & tap to the next size that will work. You may have to cut down the head of the bolt for clearance.
That would be the easiest. Or you can remove the nut, machine a new one of a better grade & weld into the hole judging by the saw or
grinder marks this is not the first time for that nut. Either way make sure the bolt does not stick out of the nut enough to puncture the tube.
Craig.

[vping]

All answers what I considered. Discussing it with my son now and forming our plan of attack.

[Allan]

If you don't want to take the tyre and tube off to make the repair, just refit the stripped bolt and give it a Zot with a mig welder to stop it turning. With bolt in place and the tyre fitted and aired up, and the rim/tyre mounted on the felloe, nothing is going anywhere. You can make a permanent repair when you need to demount the tyre.

Allan from down under.

[ModelTWoods]

Vincent, I have what you need. Advice sent by email to your personal email. Check your email, ASAP. 8:50 PM Central time. I guess you didn't read your email or the Forum, as I didn't hear from you 8:00 to 8:30. Send me an email with your number and the best time to call, or email you
.

[Wayne Sheldon]

That bolt doesn't really hold much. It really doesn't even need to be there once the tire is aired up.
Was your bolt an original? Or a new one? If the bolt was old and worn, maybe a new bolt with fresh threads will work fine (don't over tighten!).
Maybe install the bolt with a drop of epoxy on the threads. When it comes time to remove the bolt to repair the tire, a couple blows from a medium hammer should do the trick.

my main point is that that bolt isn't all that critical. I proved this to myself many years ago when I had a model T and all but two rims had broken or missing catches and/or latches. Concerned about their safety, I carefully mounted them, made sure the ends met more or less as they should, and then carefully aired them up. They all seemed to be secure, even without the latches.

Number one, this style "split rim" is not like the multi-part so-called "split rims". There are no rings to be blown by great force flying clear across the street!, Even if one under pressure did happen to pop apart? Your ears might ring for awhile? But unless your fingers were in the wrong spot near the valve stem, you are not going to be seriously injured. And once the rim and tire are mounted onto the wheel? The rim is solidly held together and couldn't (short of a major collision!) come apart regardless.

But just to be sure? Years ago, I took the worst rim I had, mounted a good used tire and tube onto it, and aired it up carefully. Then, I proceeded to try to beat the rim apart with a big hammer! People do not realize the forces involved here, A two inch wide strip around 21 inches diameter times three ((for a low pi round number) is over sixty square inches times say thirty psi is almost a ton of pressure pushing the ends of the rim together! And with the bead of the tire holding the rim line up, that rim does NOT want to shift in any direction!
When the big hammer didn't knock the ends apart? I got a bigger hammer. And then I got a sledge hammer. I managed to bend the rim. But I never got it to pop apart.
I am sure that had I worked at it longer and harder, I could have gotten the thing to blow apart. But I saw no good reason to destroy a still usable inner tube. And I found out what I wanted to know. So long as the ends meet straight and square enough? This style rim is not going to just blow apart under normal use.

After all that, I took the tire off the rim, carefully straightened the rim (I actually bent it rather badly with the sledge hammer!), painted it and used it on a few different model Ts for a few years.

[jiminbartow]

I did he same thing and the repair I came up with, worked so good, I did on all 5 rims when I changed the 53 years old tires for new ones. Using a tap the next size up (with tapping oil) and using stainless steel hex bolts, I tapped the rim and screwed in the new bolt, ground it down and, using a ball pein hammer, made it a rivet so it could not come out. Since the rims still went on the wheel with no problem, I did not grind down the head. Don’t screw it tight as the latch must be able to turn. I did not re-drill the hole a larger size before tapping. Instead, using a drift pin, I opened the hole up a little. This allowed more steel for the threads. Jim Patrick

PS. It looks as if your bolt is the latch that holds the rim closed. If that is the case, no need to use a ball pein hammer on the threads and tighten it tight. You should still cut off the protruding threads on the back side and round off and sharp areas that could damage your tube. Definitely use the thick flap to protect the tube.

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[ModelTWoods]

I did he same thing and the repair I came up with, worked so good, I did on all 5 rims when I changed the 53 years old tires for new ones. Using a tap the next size up (with tapping oil) and using stainless steel hex bolts, I tapped the rim and screwed in the new bolt, ground it down and, using a ball pein hammer, made it a rivet so it could not come out. Since the rims still went on the wheel with no problem, I did not grind down the head. Don’t screw it tight as the latch must be able to turn. I did not re-drill the hole a larger size before tapping. Instead, using a drift pin, I opened the hole up a little. This allowed more steel for the threads. Jim Patrick

PS. It looks as if your bolt is the latch that holds the rim closed. If that is the case, no need to use a ball pein hammer on the threads and tighten it tight. You should still cut off the protruding threads on the back side and round off and sharp areas that could damage your tube. Definitely use the thick flap to protect the tube.


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Jim, As you know, there were TWO types of latching mechanisms used on Ford 21" rims. One, like the one you showed, used a sliding lever to lock the rim, but that is not the type the author showed and has. His picture specifically showed the type that has a 'tab' that fits over a raised 'button' on the rim and is secured by a special round slotted head screw or bolt, and the repair for each is different. If you look at his picture at the top of the original post, you will see the 'tab' in its position when placed on the 'button' on the opposite end of the rim from the 'tab'. I had a 21" rim which had already been zinc plated and I thought was ready to use. When I went to insert the special screw, I found the threads in the "button' (like the author's) to be stripped. I must have posted about it on the Forum, because former Forum member, Model T engine builder, and Master Machinist, Henry "Hank" Lee, came to my rescue. Without me asking for help, Hank machined some new threaded "buttons" for me on his lathe and sent them to me. All I had to do was follow his instructions to remove the damaged "button" from my rim; drill out the hole where the original button was; and braze or weld in the new button. I am not a professional welder and because of my heart pacemaker, I can't electric weld, anyway, so a local member of my club (and a professional welder) offered to do it for me. I was worried about heat from brazing or welding on the newly zinc plated rim, but my friend knew exactly how to do it, and made the repair following Hank's instructions. The resulting repair didn't even damage the new zinc plating (it's a wonder what adding a "heat sink" to a object when making a repair, will do to dissipate heat). Anyway, I have one of Hank's 'buttons' left over and have offered it to Vincent (the poster) but I have not heard from him.

[varmint]

Yesterday, I had a very loose #12 screw and zapped the inside of the hole one time with a wire welder. Screw snugged up after that.

Disclaimer: I have no clue how safe that would be for your application.

[ModelTWoods]

I guess Mr. Pena decided on a different way to fix his rim problem, so if anyone else has same problem; contact me. I only have one "fix", available.

[John Codman]

A Helicoil?

[ModelTWoods]

A Helicoil?

Hank Lee's "fix" isn't a heli coil. He said they aren't strong enough for safety.

[John Codman]

A Helicoil?

Hank Lee's "fix" isn't a heli coil. He said they aren't strong enough for safety.

I have used them on headbolts with no problem. Also, Wayne Sheldon has said that the bolt (capscrew if you are anal) isn't under much load.

[ModelTWoods]

A Helicoil?

Hank Lee's "fix" isn't a heli coil. He said they aren't strong enough for safety.

I have used them on headbolts with no problem. Also, Wayne Sheldon has said that the bolt (capscrew if you are anal) isn't under much load.

The difference between a head bolt and rim bolt is obvious. One bolt (screw if you will), holds the rim together, along with the air pressure in the tube, but that help is lost if the tire and tube are punctured. If a flat occurs and the rim collapses because of a rim bolt failure, it could be a safety issue. There are Fifteen head bolts retaining a T head to the block. if one fails, regardless of whether it was repaired with a heli coil, or not, you've still got 14 others to count on, and the worst that can happen is a head gasket leak. Its not a safety issue. I guess it boils down to whether an owner wants to fix a rim correctly whether he wants to fix it with a "half ass" repair. For me, Hank was kind enough to take the time and effort to machine the 'buttons' for me to fix the rim RIGHT, and for that I was thankful to him. No other Forum member stepped up and offered to do the same.

[Allan]

The rim closure in question has a raised flange which sits within the closing bridge piece. All the screw does is stop the bridge piece from letting the rim override that raised flange. There is no real load on it at all. It is more like a locator. Given this, a tack weld would keep the screw in location. A later fix with a helicoil would be a better fix when mounting a new tyre.

Allan from down under.

[ModelTWoods]

The rim closure in question has a raised flange which sits within the closing bridge piece. All the screw does is stop the bridge piece from letting the rim override that raised flange. There is no real load on it at all. It is more like a locator. Given this, a tack weld would keep the screw in location. A later fix with a helicoil would be a better fix when mounting a new tyre.

Allan from down under.

Allan, I admit that since the screw going into the rim to lock the two ends together, fits against the steel fellow, and as long as the four rim to fellow bolts are in place and tight. there is little chance of a catastrophic wheel failure but as I said above, there is one right "factory" way to make a show car type repair, but there are many "shade tree", "half ass" ways to make the repair.

[OilyBill]

Well, Heli-Coils are approved thread repairs by the FAA for aircraft use. So, they must be equal to, or superior to, the original installation. I would assume they are superior because you are actually putting a thread in a larger load area, versus the original thread area. I worked on Learjets, and Boeing 737's and 757's, and many of the forgings and mounts had Heli-coils installed direct from Lear and Boeing, for the extra durability they gave to aluminum castings or forgings. I have never seen one that failed on an aircraft. We replaced some due to being buggered up by careless mechanics, but installing a new one saved parts that cost thousands of dollars. (And they were an Approved Repair in the Structural Repair Manual for all those aircraft, for threaded holes that did NOT have Heli-coils originally installed in them, just threads tapped into the original part location.)

Just my two pfennigs.

[speedytinc]

The thickness of the area needing a thread is only about 1/4", not a deep blind casting.
Not a good job for a helicoil. There is plenty of room to go to the next size fine thread.

[vping]

Been lost in the woods of upsate my the last few weekends, hiking and camping with the Mrs.

I contacted Terry.

Appreciate everyone's input. I'll get back on to T in a few days when I return.

Vince

[ModelTWoods]

Been lost in the woods of upsate my the last few weekends, hiking and camping with the Mrs.

I contacted Terry.

Appreciate everyone's input. I'll get back on to T in a few days when I return.

Vince

Vince, Just checked my Yahoo email. No message from you yet. Still got "fix", but frankly had given up thinking you had chosen one of the "easier" ways to fix it, suggested by other members.

[vping]

Back from PTO and received the part from Terry. Came with a great sheet of installation destructions. I shared with my son and it's on the list for a redo.

Thanks again Terry!!
Cheers,
Vince