That Awful Starter-Button

[Jugster]

The commercially available, floor-mounted, replacement starter-button for Model T Fords is a worthless piece of junk. It is so bad, I have to replace the darned thing every two years.

Because the dummy-door on the port side of my Touring doesn't open, any work on the driver’s side mechanisms—in this case, the starter-button—requires squeezing my middle-aged girth between the jambs of the operational door on the starboard side while kneeling on the running board. Then, with the front floorboards removed, my considerable weight must be supported by one hand upon sharp-edged, grit-greasy linkages, cotter pins and other flesh-assaulting impedimenta, while the across-the-frame task at hand—which requires two hands—is performed by one hand.

After two knee replacements and four spine-surgeries, replacing the starter-button is the kind of task I do not wish to perform more than once more. Does anybody out there know where I can buy a ready-to-bolt-on starter switch for a Model T that will last a good, long time?

[tdump]

A solenoid from a 1966 F100 will bolt right across the 2 top bolts holding the steering column to the dash, a little wire work,and the switch won't be carrying so many amps as to burn up so often.

[speedytinc]

Put a WTB in the classifieds.
There is a member or 2 that restore/refurbish original starter switches.

I wonder though, if T people will pay a reasonable price for rebuilt units that will cost 2-3 times the price of a repop that will last the next 100 years.
Ill find out this weekend @ the Long Beach Model T swap meet.

From what I have seen from failed repops, its not just that they cant handle the amp draw, Their flimsy construction wont handle foot pressure.

[RajoRacer]

There are two switches available - one is a cheap import, the other is a USA made tractor switch that I've had good service from. If you're "heavy-footed", you might consider a solenoid system.

I agree with John.

[varmint]

I bought one of those "worthless piece of junk" starter switches and rebuilt it.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41725

[TRDxB2]

I've posted this in the past about the poor design & material used for SOME of the repro switches. I have sen some changes in design (at the locale Tractor Supply). Better ones have 4 bent tabs holding the plunger tube in position.
The repro starter switches generally fail because of burned out contacts or bent plunger tube. The bent tube can also lead to burned out contacts.
The tube may bend because the top of the plunger tube is too high above the floor board allowing it to rock forward bending the top of the case resulting in only one of the contacts making contact.
As you can see in this switch there are just two bent over tabs securing the plunger tube allowing the tube to bend forward when depressed. A fix could be a spot weld to secure the tube from or perhaps a heavy bead of JB weld ?. You can also see that that the contacts in the bottom portion of the switch are housed in a rubber insulating tub with no provision for drainage - potential short.
Since the plunger only needs to travel a small amount to make contact that plus a little more is all that is needed. The plunder hole in the floor board also should be just enough to keep the tube upright when depressed to avoid the bending.
It would be a good idea too report how the switch failed - contacts, bent tube base or both

[DanTreace]

Using a solenoid will take the load off the foot switch.

On this install refurbished an original screw cover T switch, drilled hole under the cover to fasten one arm of the solenoid. That gave the 6v solenoid a good ground to function as the foot switch plate is fastened to the frame anyway, but be sure the bolts to plate and frame are clear of rust or paint for ground return.

The heavy battery and starter cables mount to the solenoid.

Then run little wires to power the solenoid, works great!

[RajoRacer]

Great photo Dan !

[JohnM]

I had a period "correct" repo switch fail also. I replaced it with the USA made tractor switch from Lang's six years ago, no problems since.

[Allan]

There really is no substitute for a nice original switch, and a nice original does not require a "work-around".

Allan from down under.

[jiminbartow]

Over 20 years ago, I bought an original floor starter switch for my 1926 coupe and I have been using it ever since. It is very reliable and works every time. Amazing that technology from 100 years ago that produced a superior starter switch is better than modern day technology that is unable to produce a switch that even works. Jim Patrick

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IMG_8856.jpeg (13.62 KiB) Viewed 4219 times

[John kuehn]

This has come up before. Several other T original parts have T enthusiasts who restores them for Model T owners.

Hopefully someone would start doing it but making it worthwhile to do has to be considered. Seems like there would be a market to do it as there are lots of original switches out there. Or they use to be. It’s remarkable the old originals work as well as they do. It’s awful hard to me how the originals can get bent over or break. The only parts that seem to wear out are the contacts and insulators.

[AdminJeff]

Using a solenoid will take the load off the foot switch.
On this install refurbished an original screw cover T switch, drilled hole under the cover to fasten one arm of the solenoid. That gave the 6v solenoid a good ground to function as the foot switch plate is fastened to the frame anyway, but be sure the bolts to plate and frame are clear of rust or paint for ground return.
The heavy battery and starter cables mount to the solenoid.

Sometimes a modern upgrade IS the right answer. Why do you think every single modern gas powered car now uses a modern solenoid on all starters? Because this the ONLY way you reliably and safely deliver 200+ DC amps to a starter and not burn up your foot switch after a year. It's the ONLY proven way to solve this problem over the long term if you drive your car more than a couple of times a year. The moment I realized this fatal flaw on my T years ago, I ordered a 6v solenoid and installed it - problem solved. The best part? I didn't even need to use my EE degree to figure this out!

Dan's excellent pics show exactly how to solve it. Purists need to get over it and install a solenoid or stop complaining about the problem and just realize that continued use will require periodic rebuilding/replacement of the T foot switch. It's an inherent design flaw that cannot be corrected in the original foot switch design with copper contacts.

For those interested in how and why modern solenoids are vastly superior to vintage copper foot switch contacts, this detailed scientific article is quite instructive. https://static.tlxtech.com/files/Sophis ... actors.pdf

As always, YOUR mileage will vary.
Jeff
PS... perhaps I'll investigate fabricating new T foot switches with low resistance composite material for contacts instead of copper... hmmmm... I see a possible winter project coming to light.

[Dan Hatch]

Jeff: With Model T guys being ModelT guys, a new foot switch would be a hard thing to get them to put out the $ for. They all think that they will find an nos one down the aisle at the next booth on the dollar table.

I think something to prevent blowing out mag headlight bulbs might be a better way to spend you talents on. Specially if it would look just the Ford supplied unit. Thanks Dan.

[varmint]

Something that I never stated about my fix of a new starter switch: I am hopeful that the greatly improved mass of the contact disk will prevent / delay welding of components as it will absorb heat away from the surface area before damage occurs. I am not an electrical engineer nor a physicist. Also, there is a battery cut off installed underneath within reach.

Yes, there are many inconveniences with the T, but we would like to experience them. That is the purpose why we have a stock engine, trans, brakes, cooling system, steering, and suspension. On the other hand, owners developed hacks when they were new and I hope that spirit continues. Everyone should have their own choice in the matter.

[Allan]

The original switches operate at two levels. There is a return spring in the tower/plunger to lift contact away from the poles in the switch base. A second function is built into the contact bridge itself. I believe this laminated bridge is made of way superior material than any of the reproduction switches. It is very "springy" in action and helps to break the contact between the poles. Someone posted about the material used in original coilbox contacts in contrast with the lesser quality repro contacts. The original switch bridges are of this better quality stuff.

In combination with sturdier overall construction, this twin spring action makes for a much more positive action in the original switches. I have yet to have a need to use other than a rebuilt original switch and the requisite heavy battery leads compatible with a 6 volt system.

Others have had different experiences.

Allan from down under.

[tiredfarmer]

When I got my 26 Touring I put on a switch that looked like the original, of coarse it failed. I then put on Lang's 5014 RE I had it on for over 10 years without any issues. This year I had trouble with the starter so I changed the old with a rebuilt one, Still had trouble starting, I thought it is the switch so I looked in my Dad's old books an I found a Standard starter switch SS525. I went to NAPA with the part number, they match it with NAPA ECH ST6, I found out that it wasn't the switch but the battery was not holding a charge, I bought it last November I put a new battery in and my T started. I'm going to put the new switch under the seat just in case I need it later

[AdminJeff]

Jeff: With Model T guys being ModelT guys, a new foot switch would be a hard thing to get them to put out the $ for. They all think that they will find an nos one down the aisle at the next booth on the dollar table.

I think something to prevent blowing out mag headlight bulbs might be a better way to spend you talents on. Specially if it would look just the Ford supplied unit. Thanks Dan.

Dan, After thinking about it for 17 nano seconds last night I actually came to exactly the same conclusion. The "cheap ones" at Langs are $15. Can't compete with that...

blowing out mag headlight bulbs? Do expand on that? First I've heard of it. I don't have a mag on my car so I can't relate. New thread?

[speedytinc]

The original switches operate at two levels. There is a return spring in the tower/plunger to lift contact away from the poles in the switch base. A second function is built into the contact bridge itself. I believe this laminated bridge is made of way superior material than any of the reproduction switches. It is very "springy" in action and helps to break the contact between the poles. Someone posted about the material used in original coilbox contacts in contrast with the lesser quality repro contacts. The original switch bridges are of this better quality stuff.

In combination with sturdier overall construction, this twin spring action makes for a much more positive action in the original switches. I have yet to have a need to use other than a rebuilt original switch and the requisite heavy battery leads compatible with a 6 volt system.

Others have had different experiences.

Allan from down under.

You are on to something regarding the springgy bridge. I recently did "complete" rebuilds on several original switch units.
The thing missing from any information on "rebuilding" was addressing the top plunger unit. Only the base contacts were re-surfaced.
The top, button section, has a spring that can rust out. A complete rebuild includes replacing the center post that is originally swedged on both ends with a newly made replacement. One end to hold the top button & @ the bottom to hold the bridge leafs together. Multiple different insulators. Not all units use the same sized insulators. I used 5 different sized fiber washers to do the batch.

Anyway, the bridge leafs are a stack of 3, sometimes 4 conductive strips. Not copper, but a springy brass like material, possibly beryllium?
My answer to the burning/wear to the contact leaf was to reshuffle the stack to get a fresh/new leaf for the bottom of the bridge stack.
That gives a "complete" restoration, putting the switch as "new" ready for another 100 years service.

Would T guys shell out, say $70 for such a remanufactured starter switch?

Regarding modern solenoids. They are not all roses & puppies.
I have used them on pre 19 cars during starter retrofits. I prefer a remote starter switch over using a model incorrect, post 19 original switch, adding a big hole in the floor. I have not seen any of these solenoids fail yet. However, they seem to all come out of China now. I have had 3 fail on my 80's Ford truck.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I'm reposting my observations from a past thread...

As to starter switches, these are my observations. First, I have repaired a few switches. Not claiming that makes me an expert. (Probably nobody else would claim that of me either ) The original style switch uses a multi layered "leaf spring" style moveable contact. My thought is that, when pushing down on the plunger, the leaf spring contact, after initially touching the studs, does a bit of flexing. Like any leaf spring, when it flexes, its arch somewhat flattens out and the spring elongates slightly. When the pressure is removed from the plunger, the spring re-arches and pulls away from the contact studs. As it re-arches, the spring length once again shortens up a bit. The significance of the small change in spring length, is that in doing so, any tendency for the leaf spring contact to weld itself to the contact studs is overcome by the leaf spring pulling laterally away from the stud, while at the same time being pulled upwards by the coil spring. In my mind at least, that's what's going on. To not have that lateral rubbing force on the contacts, due to the flexure of the moveable leaf spring contact, may lead to welding/sticking of contacts.

[Allan]

John K's reference to beryllium rang the bell. It is used in making beryllium steel, a strong, springy material.

Allan from down under.