1926 Bumper Bummer

[varmint]

Bought a bumper some years ago for a "fits Model A and Model T". Of course, if I am posting this you know by now that the statement is not true. The two front bars measure 1/4" x 1-1/2" x 60". What are the true measurements?
as always...Thanks guys

[Mark Gregush]

Is yours an open end or closed end type 1926/27 style? It should be open ended and would have been just curved bars.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Whether it is a Ford factory or after-market bumper depends upon a dozen details, both major and minor differences in how it is made and what the mounting brackets are like. At a picture is worth a thousand words (literally!), a few good photographs or about five thousand well thought out words would help a lot.

[varmint]

Enjoy the photos.

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[Allan]

They are not factory Ford issue, but could be accessories made for a Ford. A lot will depend on the mounting brackets.

Allan from down under.

[varmint]

The mounting brackets (in 2016) that came with this front bumper do not line up with the three frame holes on each side.
I have recently replaced the mounting brackets with the correct ones that work perfectly. The mounting brackets are no longer the issue.

I have seen photos of what the correct bumper is supposed to look like.
Methinks I can maybe use this wrong bumper, disassemble it, use the top and bottom bars, heat, and bend to shape.

The original poster gave measurements to these two wrong bars: 1/4" x 1-1/2" x 60"
The question is what are the measurements to a correct set of bars (since i have already spent money on this)?

[Scott C.]

My 26 Roadster has Model A bumpers on it.

[Allan]

I would not use heat to re- profile the bars. It will affect their hardness. Rather set them up in a press and bend them cold. With a series of stops/anvils you can duplicate the bends at each end, with very good control.

Allan from down under.

[Mark Gregush]

Allan, true. Even Model A bumper arms after being hot worked need to be re tempered.

[varmint]

Scott, the bumper and T both look nice.

That was my plan, heat anneal, bend, heat temper. Slow and fast cooling. On second thought, maybe I should just leave it annealed so that the bumper gives way, like on modern vehicles.
I don't know who I got these from but this is what I am going by for bends:

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I would sell them and then buy a set of real Ford bumpers. After you modify these, they'll need to be replated, (which I guess they'll need anyway). By the time you've paid for all that, you might as well buy what you really want.

BTW, there's nothing wrong at all with using those bumpers the way they are. They are aftermarket bumpers, made for any number of cars. Putting them on a T is no great sin. My '25 Touring has aftermarket bumpers. But, if genuine Ford bumpers is what you want...

[Wayne Sheldon]

I agree with Jerry Van! (I usually do) That is a nice looking original after-market bumper that could and would have been used on any small to midsize automobile of the mid1920s, including the model T. It is absolutely era correct for an improved model T Ford. Many people bought Fords, without the optional factory bumpers to save a few dollars. And then a month or few months later bought after-market bumpers for them to look more up to date.
Why spend the time and money to make this one into something it wasn't when you could either have something special like it was, or probably spend less to replace it with a more "correct" "factory" (replacement) bumper if that is what you really want?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I agree with Jerry Van! (I usually do)

[Wayne Sheldon]

Jerry V, Does it surprise you that I always look forward to your postings and usually agree with you?
I do know that I can be opinionated and disagreeable at times. But that is me.

[varmint]

I believe that both of you are at least trying to be helpful and I'm grateful for that but you logic fails. When I bought the bumper it was for "fits Model A and Model T" and I was OK with that. I did not have an issue with it being different. So, unfortunately, ya'lls diagnosis of my motives are incorrect. What I did run into was that I literally could not bolt it up to the frame. Do you believe me? I will provide two photos. Maybe I can be shown that I am wrong, that it can work.

[Wayne Sheldon]

The model T Ford, due to its different suspension and lack of frame horns, required special mountings designed to reach way back to the frame and go around the fender brackets brackets in the front and cross member in the rear (if also added).
There were models of Chevrolet and Overland that had similar reach problems with different offsets to fit.

Those brackets you show in the recent photos look like they can be made to work well regardless of there origins.

The full fender boat-tail roadster I had a long time ago had an original after-market front bumper made special for model Ts with the brackets made as part of the bumper itself. However, many after-market bumper manufacturers did make standard bumpers for smaller cars that only needed to be ordered with special brackets to fit model T Fords.

I like the bumper you have and think it will look great on your car!

[varmint]

So, a couple of weeks ago, I purchased these front bumper brackets and they are already mounted. They actually lined up with all six bolt holes.

I have center mount and two end backing plates on order. Original examples look like the center mount maybe has a 1" space between the two bars. The two outer backing plates appear to clamp around the outside of the two bars. When the hardware pieces come ion the mail...IF the backing plates are 4" interior and the center space is 1" then that leaves 3" remaining, or 1-1/2" vertical height per each bar which is part of the original question.

Yes, I will end up selling the other bumper. I decided not to destroy it. So, I went to the scrap yard and bought steel. I hope 1/4" is right (which I never got an answer) for thickness. One bar I rough cut from the stock down to 2" tall yesterday late afternoon and 67" long for now. Nickle plate? No, just spray paint.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Jerry V, Does it surprise you that I always look forward to your postings and usually agree with you?
I do know that I can be opinionated and disagreeable at times. But that is me.

Wayne,

I am both surprised and highly flattered that my postings have had a positive impact. I thank you for your kind words and hope that my future postings are as well received. Thank you sir.

P.S. I don't believe I've ever found you to be overly opinionated or disagreeble.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I believe that both of you are at least trying to be helpful and I'm grateful for that but you logic fails. When I bought the bumper it was for "fits Model A and Model T" and I was OK with that. I did not have an issue with it being different. So, unfortunately, ya'lls diagnosis of my motives are incorrect. What I did run into was that I literally could not bolt it up to the frame. Do you believe me? I will provide two photos. Maybe I can be shown that I am wrong, that it can work.

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Varmint,

Yes, I believe you that the brackets do not fit up to the usual bumper mount holes. I will say however, that those brackets look nearly identical to the ones on my '25 Touring.

The small angled brackets on yours appear to be intended mount to a 26/27 front fender brace, at the large carriage bolt, where the fender attaches, (bolt head shown in last photo). You can see that the rear end of the backet grabs the frame flange with a "J" bolt.

[Scott C.]

I measured a set of repro bumpers on a car that I am working on, and they are 1/4 x 1 3/4. I measured a set of old original, I assume, bumpers and they are 5/16 x 1 11/16.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Thank you Scott C for those measurements. I don't currently have any era bumpers handy except for the 1927 Paige's factory bumper (a bit different than what would usually be used on a model T). Material measurements will of course vary from maker to maker, and product to product. However, most would be near standard material sizes, so those figures can help someone restoring or remaking a bumper now.

Jerry V, I found your photo of the "J" bolt and how it hooked over the outside of the frame rail to be very interesting, and should be helpful to some wanting to add era bumpers to their cars. (It should be noted by anyone considering this that the bolt is of heavy size and the hook tightly bent.)
My fascination with the picture is that many many years ago, I had a very rare car that I really wanted to restore. It was a 1921/22 Sayers touring car, which I a few years later sold when one of our kids hit us with a large unexpected medical bill. The car was built as an upper midsize and somewhat quality car, and as usual for those years did not come from the factory with a bumper. It did however have a nice (by 1922 standards) after-market front bumper. The car was in rather poor condition, and the bumper had clearly been on it for a very long time. It was mounted onto the chassis only by four "J" bolts. Two on each side, the front-most ones hooked from over the top of the frame horns, while the rear ones hooked from under the frame rails.
It should be remembered that tools like hand held electric drills were not common in those days. Even a lot of repair shops wouldn't have one. So no drilling holes "J" bolts made installing simple with just hooking and adjusting the position, tightening with a common wrench.

[varmint]

Scott that's great, appreciated. So, if the space in the center between the two bars is 1", then the backing plate on the repop would hold a bumper 4-1/2" top to bottom and the original would have a backing plate 4-3/8" internal measurement. I will probably get the new backing plates from the vendors (not making my own) later this week and whatever size they are determines the bar height.

[varmint]

J-bolt? Wow, never knew. On impact, I suppose that thing will slide down the rail. No bolt in the middle hole. Front 3/8" hole lines up with the fender bracket, not the frame. Ehh, most Ts don't even have a bumper.

Parts came in the mail. The center space is 1-1/8" and the backing plate has an inside spacing of 4-11/16".
Quiz show...anyone want to guess what the bar height should be for this scenario?

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[varmint]

Documenting for whomever follows after me:
So, the outer front plates are 1.043 but the center is 1.125". The hardware parts are all from the vendors.
The holes in the original bumper brackets and backing plates are 9/16" but the bolts are 1/2".
I never heard what the bar lengths should be. So, they are 61" and are clear coated raw steel.
The answer to the quiz is (4-11/16 minus 1-1/8) divided by two or 1.78125"
However, using the outer face plates (also vendor), the answer is (4-11/16 minus 1.043) divided by two or 1.82225"
This is the measurement of the height of each bar.

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[varmint]

Anyone know what material, original bumper front plates were made from?
Because this one is not magnetic. When I bought these last month, the paint was cracked all over like porcelain.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Looks like cheap, cast aluminum. The originals were steel. I'd want my money back.

[DanTreace]

That's odd to have the clamp fracture, maybe was stressed too much?


Have seen a fracture on tour, friend's "27 runabout, he heard a new 'rattle' from up front, pulled over and found one bar loose. Just so happened for some unexplained reason, a single spare clamp was in his tool box, go figure, changed it out and no more rattle

Have the repop clamps on my '27, since 2010 and no issues. The clamps are the chrome version, but over a non-magnetic base material.

[varmint]

It's too heavy to be aluminum, probably pot metal or zinc.
.464" for the repop and my scrap slab is .518".
You can see the cracking on the "undamaged" piece.

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[varmint]

Worked it with an angle grinder.

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[varmint]

Broaching, more grinding, sanding, and painting it black. Will rattle can the other side tomorrow.
Then I have the second one to do. I probably won't ask for a refund because I want the carriage bolt with square nut.
Meh, good enough. At least it won't be a liability.

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[Mark Gregush]

There were some Model A ones made back in the 70's and maybe later, maybe sold by Ricks or JC Witney that did the same thing.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Nice work!