Centerdoor Dome Light Question

[Mike Silbert]

Calling all CenterDoor owners - Do you have a dome light?
My 1921 CenterDoor (Fisher body) came to me mostly finished with a new interior but no dome light.
Some insist I am supposed to have one but I do not feel the mounting block in the roof under the headliner and find no evidence of a switch.
Looking at the parts books I can only find reference to there being a dome light in 1915 (magneto powered?).
Documentation on the CenterDoor is tough to find so I ask...
Does your CenterDoor have a dome light?
What is correct for these cars?

[Rich in Colorado]

Mike,

My 1922 Center Door doesn't have a dome light. I replaced the interior and found no evidence of a light mounted on the overhead or switch.
Below is a picture of an unrestored 1915 Center Door at the Old Car Festival in Dearborn. It has a dome light that I think was battery operated as I think, center doors always came with an electric starter.



If you look closely, you can see the light switch on the door frame.

Rich

[George House]

Although I wasn’t aware of the earliest centerdoors having a dome light, I always thought Ford installed dome lights only on four door sedans with the B post switch. I’m 2nd owner of a ‘19 centerdoor and restored it with new upholstery. There was certainly no evidence of a dome light…. Of course centerdoors didn’t “always came with an electric starters” because starters were only introduced in 1919.

[Russ T Fender]

My unrestored ‘22 Centerdoor has no dome light. All original interior.

[mtntee20]

Our 1920 did not have one when we got it. BUT, we found a switch mount recess (no switch in it) on the passenger side B pillar.

[Stephen_heatherly]

My 1919 centerdoor, which had its original interior, did not come with a dome light. I will be adding one, however.

Stephen

[Wayne Sheldon]

Mike,

My 1922 Center Door doesn't have a dome light. I replaced the interior and found no evidence of a light mounted on the overhead or switch.
Below is a picture of an unrestored 1915 Center Door at the Old Car Festival in Dearborn. It has a dome light that I think was battery operated as I think, center doors always came with an electric starter.

If you look closely, you can see the light switch on the door frame.

Rich

I don't recall now whether the 1915 may have had a dome light from the factory or not? However, the 1916 I had many years ago did not, regardless of whether it was a real 1916 or not (I think it was, for several good reasons).
However, center-door sedans did NOT get a starter from Ford until 1919.
I have looked at a lot of center-door sedans over the years, of all year models they made. I have seen a few with dome lights, likely added later. I do not know for certain, but I do not think Ford installed them at the factory as a general rule.

[Rich in Colorado]

Of course centerdoors didn’t “always came with an electric starters” because starters were only introduced in 1919.

I stand corrected. In his book "90 years of Ford" George Dammann said in the 1915 section on closed cars that "Electric Lights began to appear for the first time" I remembered reading that and I assumed too much!

Thanks for setting me straight.


Rich

[Mike Silbert]

Thank you for the answers, and so far it looks like 1916-1923 centerdoors did not come with a dome light and some people add them.
The 1915 centerdoor was a special body in lots of ways and the parts book is probably right.
The part numbers of the dome light assembly and each of the parts are special to the 1915 dome light including the bulb.
So Ford used a special bulb only for that car, not sure why.
My best guess it had to be magneto powered.
Not real practical to climb through a dark car to start the engine to make the dome light work.
The interesting things you find when you dig into the Model T documentation.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Some of this post is pure speculation on my part.
I researched center-door sedans quite a bit over thirty years ago when I restored my 1916. I even had a couple long talks with Bruce about them. Mine had been the victim of bad 1950s restoration. While it had looked nice enough (I cleaned up the 1950s repaint as it was actually very good), but it had been disassembled by another previous owner to be re-restored because of so many things done wrong. That previous owner then found and bought a real early 1915 sedan and sold mine in pieces. It then went though a string of owners, each getting some of the correct pieces, and losing some things along the way. The 1950s restoration had replaced so many things. Later front axle, 1925 engine, the rear end was half 1920s, half 1910s, and a lot of things one couldn't tell whether they were original to the car or not. Interestingly however, the steering column had early 1916 style brass plated spark and throttle rods and quadrant, along with a few other unique to 1915 and 1916 items that had the car been a later one being altered likely would not have been used. Among those, the rear seat structure was like no other USA built c-d sedan I ever saw. The only c-d sedan I ever saw with the same rear seat structure was a known 1916 Canadian built sedan that still had its original gasoline tank under the rear seat just as was done in the 1915 sedans.

While I was researching my sedan in those days before the internet, and being too far away from the big T research centers, I wasn't finding much really good information.
I did get to speak with several knowledgeable people and see a lot of era photographs of the prototype and 1915 cars. Since I was also very interested in most other horseless carriage era cars, I looked into some of those that also offered a center-door sedan in their lineups.
The 1915 Ford sedan was unique, in many ways. And several other automakers were offering c-d sedans a couple years before Ford began to for 1915. Oddly, Ford's 1915 body did not even fit the chassis very well. It was beautifully upholstered, and very un-Ford like. It was also overly expensive.
I suspect that although no known records say so? I suspect Ford rushed this idea into the lineup as an experiment, to see if pursuing the idea was worthwhile. Looking at era photos of the prototypes (there were at least two of them as a couple photos exist showing two prototype T sedans). Ford's styling department played with a few different fender designs as well as different headlamps and other details. Whether there were more than two prototypes or the styling department changed fenders and other items to see how they looked is anybody's guess.
As I said, a few other automakers were already offering c-d sedans. Looking at their offerings and the Ford prototypes, it looks like Ford was simply using the then currently built bodies supplied to the other automakers.
Again, speculation, I suspect that the 1915 c-d sedan was basically the standard body as was already being offered and built for a few other manufacturers of smaller automobiles. Some minor adjustments made by the body supplier to better fit the Ford chassis and production could commence in a couple months. Only about 900 of the 1915 c-d sedans were built and sold. But that may have been enough to convince Ford that giving the design his special touch would result in an economical product that would soon become more and more popular.

Regardless, the true 1915 center-door sedan is one of the model T's most intriguing models. And all the thousands of center-door sedans built over the next seven years are also special and wonderful.

[Robert Kiefaber]

My 15 Centerdoor sedan has the dome light. And my 22 has a dome light, but the wiring is external and runs to a pull switch on the dash.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Does the dome light on your 1915 appear to have been an original item? Do most of the 1915 center-door sedans have one? This is something I have been curious about for a long time.
I have been around a lot of incredible brass and nickel era automobiles over the years. However, the model T 1915 center-door sedan is a car I have seen many (hundreds?) of photos of, both modern and early era photos. However, I have only had a few minutes in person within thirty feet of a real one. That was at a swap meet many years ago and I don't think I got close enough to look in the window.

[Robert Kiefaber]

Wayne, the original wiring is still there but I could not figure out how it got its power. It had a channel in the passenger side pillar where the wire ran half way up to the switch and then up across the top bow to the light. I believe it ran on a battery and not magneto.

[Wayne Sheldon]

So many of the things I have heard and read over the years turned out to not be true. That is one of the reasons I began studying so many era photographs. They may not know everything, however, they rarely lie or misremember either.
I hesitate to repeat some of the things I have been told without somehow explaining it. Many years ago, when I was trying to find out all I could about the first couple years of center-door sedans, I was told the 1915s had a dome light, and that it was run off a battery. Fords of course had no battery from the factory as a general rule. Perhaps the dealer might provide one? One person that had a 1915 told me there was a wire under the rear seat, presumably for the dome light, but no indication it had ever been hooked up. But I never saw it, or saw any other evidence of it.
For whatever that is worth.

Looks like a beautiful and wonderful car!

[Will_Vanderburg]

My 22 does not have a dome light

[Robert Kiefaber]

So many of the things I have heard and read over the years turned out to not be true. That is one of the reasons I began studying so many era photographs. They may not know everything, however, they rarely lie or misremember either.
I hesitate to repeat some of the things I have been told without somehow explaining it. Many years ago, when I was trying to find out all I could about the first couple years of center-door sedans, I was told the 1915s had a dome light, and that it was run off a battery. Fords of course had no battery from the factory as a general rule. Perhaps the dealer might provide one? One person that had a 1915 told me there was a wire under the rear seat, presumably for the dome light, but no indication it had ever been hooked up. But I never saw it, or saw any other evidence of it.
For whatever that is worth.

Looks like a beautiful and wonderful car!

Wayne, yes the other end of the wire did go under the rear seat. From there I’m not sure where it went. It does have a battery box on the driver side fender. Maybe Hap Tucker could fill in the blanks since this was his Fathers car.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I have wondered where that car went! Maybe I heard something at some point some years back, but forgot. I had heard it found a great home, and it seems that is right.