1927 T kills when any pedal is pushed

[RDLDRDLD]

I have a an issue I can't figure out. I have the rear end removed. When idling, the drive runs, but if I push forward or reverse pedal, it will kill before engaging the planetary gears. The bands will smoke until it kills if I slow the pedal motion down. Nothing is engaging the way it should. I inherited this car and it hasn't been driven since FIL bought it. Engine runs good.
The low high pedal moves the way it should. I am looking for things to test why the planetary gears don't drive off the stopped disc.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

In what position is your parking brake lever when you run these "tests"? If it's all the way forward, then your transmission is locked in high gear. Pushing pedals as you suggest will only drag the motor down, ruin your bands, and maybe crack a transmission drum.

Do NOT engage the bands until they smoke!

[RajoRacer]

Clutch discs or triple gears WHONKY ???

[Kevin Pharis]

^^^^^^^^^
Sounds like the clutch or triple gears are locked up

[speedytinc]

Will the motor still run with the brake lever in neutral? If not, seized triple gears fit your issue.
Start with checking each triple gear for movement.

[RDLDRDLD]

Thanks for.fast responses.
In neutral I had no movement for the drive, and pushing low speed or reverse just pulls the engine down. Putting the brake forward the drive runs in high speed. Keep in mind I have the rear end and drive shaft removed.
I will do some more testing in a couple days.
If it turns the shaft in high, that would mean the triple gears are turning as they should, correct?

[NoelChico]

do you know if it had a recent transmission removal or teardown? I wonder of the triple gears aren't aligned properly or a clutch plate is hung up.

[RDLDRDLD]

I did pull the hogs head to re-line bands. Triple gears and clutch were not messed with.

[Adam]

The driven gear shaft is partially fractured or completely broken. That is the shaft on the brake drum that goes thru the low speed bushing. The broken or fractured pieces expand into the low bushing and seizes the transmission when you engage low or reverse. This is an issue that shows up almost exclusively on only ‘26 and ‘27’s. Unless someone has a great deal of experience with T transmissions, they’ve probably never heard of this but it is fairly common in the bigger picture. If you feather the pedal just right sometimes you can get it to work properly until the fracture gets real bad then you can’t get it to work at all.

Pull your engine, remove the transmission & rebuild it.

[RDLDRDLD]

Oh boy, that sounds exciting.

[speedytinc]

"If it turns the shaft in high, that would mean the triple gears are turning as they should, correct?"
No. triple gears are not in use in hi gear.

If you have no output turning in neutral, triple gears are not locked up. If you get an intermittent grab/engagement, that's a sign of the driven/brake shaft split, but not completely broken/locked up. Also look for evidence of brass shavings/powder. This also goes with the split shaft.

Sooo. . .. Before the HH removal & band change the T transmission working properly is an unknown?
Check to confirm your clutch linkage is set correctly. See the service manual.

[John kuehn]

No previous history?
Was the car in driving condition BEFORE the differential was removed? If you were driving it when the issue began?
Did you ever actually see the car running and driving before you inherited it??

It does sound like it’s in the triple gears and one or more are seized. You may need to pull the engine and rebuild the transmission.

[RDLDRDLD]

I have zero history on this car. The pinion gear was split is why the rear end is removed currently.
I feel it was not running for a while. Head was cracked, coils bad, and radiator bad.everything I dig into seems to be busted or rotted out.

[RDLDRDLD]

Update
Looks like Speedtinc was on top of it. The shaft was broke as well as some other stuff.

[RajoRacer]

OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[speedytinc]

Actually. Adam was first.
I have seen a few that spiral crack & expand to lock the 2 drum shafts. Yours actually broken is most severe.
That spiral break seems to only happen on a wide drum.
It appears that the extra brake surface exceeds the design limit's forces.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The driven gear shaft is partially fractured or completely broken.

Not sure which I'm more impressed by... your diagnosis or the damage!

Excellent call!

[Adam]

The driven gear shaft is partially fractured or completely broken.

Not sure which I'm more impressed by... your diagnosis or the damage!

Excellent call!

Thanks Jerry! The diagnosis is the product of nearly 25 years of experience with several engine and/or transmission rebuilds per year. It’s not in any of the books but I’ve seen it several times and there is nothing else that acts like it. (A couple of these are in “running & driving” cars that the owners either didn’t want to fix or didn’t think it was a major problem because it “still works “good enough” most of the time”… Until that fateful day arrives.