Model N

[tdump]

I have mentioned this car here before and I finally found the 1 and only pic I have of it. For whatever reason my friends that were with me only had a novelty black and white camera . The fellow that had it lived in Lilesville Nc and had bought it from somewhere in south carolina from a old ford dealer . It was number 75 on the assembly line and the original seat had 75 written on the inside of the seat back. there is supposedly a photo somewhere of 75 on the assembly line but I have never saw it. The fellow passed on and I have no idea where this car is now. I was supposed to get a call when it was started up but never did.

[Grntea]

I hope you find what you are looking for. My wife owns a Ford model N with #76 on it. Close - but no cigar!?

[tdump]

Oh, not really "looking" for it, just letting folks know more about the N i have spoke about in the past here on the forum.This 1 was from south carolina and yours is in florida, makes sense they were shipped together?

[Rob]

Jumping in…….

Our N #3 also has a number painted on the inner seat back. It’s on the passenger seat back, number 89 (going from memory, I’ll try to find the photo). It’s painted with a brush, in the original maroon color over a black “primer.” Early N did not have a boss or pad to stamp the number on, but instead were stamped to the rear of the motor, behind the “402” casting number.

My former Model K #688 also had an almost identical #34 hand painted on the front passenger seat (inner) back, again over an original black primer type finish. Both were behind original upholstery, so I am convinced they were original to the cars.

My guess is the seats were removed from the pedestal for painting and numbered so they could be matched back with the base they were initially fitted to, but that’s just my guess. What I do know is, they were both painted in the same location (same as Mack’s description above), by hand, with a brush in the original car color.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I'd be curious to know when the serial number pad was added to the crankcase. As Rob mentioned, his N, S/N 3, is just stamped directly on the casting, while we see that #76, above, is stamped on the s/n pad. Wondering at what s/n was the change made? Most likely, we'll never know for sure, but it would be interesting to know the highest "non pad" serial number. Either way, by Rob's observations, the painted body number is not really indicative of the engine number.

[Rob]

I’ve seen a number in the 120’s still stamped without the boss (maybe #128?). Numbers I know include #25 (first N sold in Canada, being restored on Vancouver Island), #15 (recently purchased by an EFR member) and I thought a number in the 220’s.

[Rob]

N#3 stamped number:

[Rob]

N # 25

[Rob]

Inner seat numbers.

N #3:

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K #6XX:

[Grntea]

1906 Model N engine number 308 , seat number 70

[Rob]

This is the highest “pre-boss” N number I have seen! This makes me wonder if possibly the first 500 N engines (aluminum crankcases) were pre-boss? This is important in dating early motors. Any info is appreciated if anyone knows of later pre- motors, or later than this one?

[Rob]

Next question, does #308 have the early straight exhaust manifold, or is it tapered like the later (bulk of) NRS?

[Grntea]

Rob - 308 has a straight exhaust pipe and a round oiler!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Rob - 308 has a straight exhaust pipe and a round oiler!

Are the glass tubes/cylinders missing from your oil drippers?

[richc]

Here is my Model N engine number 365. It might be that inventory was on a last in first out system. If so, an early engine that was placed in inventory might not get pulled out for some extended period of time, when inventory got low. It would then be stamped with a current engine number.

Rich C.

[Rob]

Rich,
Judging by Trent Boggess’ ledger database, Model N, like most Ford models, for the most part followed sequentially in order of sales. In other words, some numbers might appear later, due to a number of possible reasons, like repair, demonstrator, etc etc., but almost no numbers appear “backwards” in order. #365 might show up later in sales (if it’s one of the about 25% that are in the surviving ledgers), but never earlier. Sooooooo, number 365 won’t show up around the #200’s. It will be in sequence, or later. I’ll attach a photo of the ledger around this range in a bit and hopefully that will help explain.

The Ford models where this sequence does not apply are models C and F. I believe that’s because these two models motors were manufactured by Dodge Bros., and they had to complete all Model C motors, store them, and begin Model F (because of the need to reconfigure tooling/machinery for the larger Model F motors were. DB did not expand facilities or labor force, so they had to produce one, then the other model, in my opinion.

[Rob]

Rich, you are in luck. Your N #365 shows up in the database, and it was sold to Northwestern, a large Ford agent in Minneapolis, that sold throughout the upper Midwest. Below is the ledger database page (thank you Trent B.), and the actual ledger page from Northwestern. It was shipped to Minneapolis on August 31, 1906. The price of the three N shipped was $1,386.50, or an average of $462.17. That equates to a retail of about $578 (average), indicating these retail $500 Model N had options (probably 28 x 3 tires for $50 plus maybe a top, clinchers, etc.).
Cheers,
Rob

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Rich, you are in luck. Your N #365 shows up in the database, and it was sold to Northwestern, a large Ford agent in Minneapolis, that sold throughout the upper Midwest. Below is the ledger database page (thank you Trent B.), and the actual ledger page from Northwestern. It was shipped to Minneapolis on August 31, 1906. The price of the three N shipped was $1,386.50, or an average of $462.17. That equates to a retail of about $578 (average), indicating these retail $500 Model N had options (probably 28 x 3 tires for $50 plus maybe a top, clinchers, etc.).
Cheers,
Rob

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IMG_5757.jpeg

Rob,

Does your database have any listing for N number 6000?

[Rob]

Jerry,
I’m using Trent’s database, included with Carl’s book. Unfortunately, no #6000. Looks like the closest N 60xx was sold/shipped 7/17/1907. Another close number was shipped 7/29/1907.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Rob,

Thanks for having a look!

[NFord509]

Do you have any information on model N number 509?

Thanks

[Rob]

Alan,
Do you own #509? If so, I have some questions. Does it have the pre-boss crankcase number stamped to the rear of the 402 casting number, or a machined boss/pad forward of “402?” Does it have the early straight exhaust manifold? Early bent support rod differential?
I’ll check Trent’s database and report back if it’s there.

[Rob]

#509 isn’t in Trent’s database, but my guess it’s an early to mid September 1906 car:

[NFord509]

Rob I do own 509. I’ve been involved with Model T’s for over 50 years never thought I’d own an N. A friend of mine came up with it a few years ago. E said he got it from an estate. I had to have it. I got it last spring.

It has the machined boss for the serial number. It has the tapered manifold and straight differential supports but early angled script on the radiator

It has an aftermarket U and J carburetor and intake and a Pfanstiel coil box. The box looks original but I’m told it can’t be also. It’s a truck! It looks original but I can’t say There are no cuts or spliced to indicate a change. I do have a top for it that needs some work

I’ll post pictures as soon as I figure out how.

Alan
Dave Woods has my coil box in Michigan right now so I haven’t had it running yet but it should.

[NFord509]

Photos of my N.

[NFord509]

The rear engine side plate says it was overhauled in June 1921

[NFord509]

Pictures of the rear body

[Robert Kiefaber]

Wow! The original patina is amazing.

[Herb Iffrig]

I am not familiar with that updraft carburetor set up.
How does it run?

[NFord509]

I don’t know yet. When I got 2 coils were dead. Dave Woods is building me a new set of coils He says he’s a couple of months behind so it may be awhile
It bothers me that the intake faces forward. Don’t know if I can turn it around
Looking forward to finding out.

[Rob]

Hmmmmm, early radiator and script. Later tapered exhaust manifold. Does it have the covered cam bushing or McCord oiler exposed camshaft to the front? Nipple for exhaust oiler on the manifold? Are the rear axle support rods bent or straight where they mount to the axle tubes?
Thank you,
Rob

[TrentB]

Here are three additional questions:
1. Is the car number stamped into the front seat riser on the right hand side of the body?
2. How does the front radius rod attach to the front axle?
3. What does the right side of the engine look like?

Thx

[NFord509]

Front of the camshaft is exposed. Manifold is tapped for anipple but has been plugged for a very long time as is the oil line tapping in the crankcase. Oil tank is gone. Rear axle rods appear straight. One may be bent from damage.