T’s
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Wayne Sheldon
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: T’s
Picture number four needs an immediate comment!
In spite of the poor quality of the photo? The angle and the lighting is perfect! Zooming in closely, it can be clearly seen that the oil sidelamps (diver's side absolutely, passenger's side likely?) are one of the early interim style lamps used in late calendar 1914 and early calendar 1915.
As I understand it from a couple serious researchers digging through the old Benson Ford archive some years back, no solid information is known about the lamps, who made all of them, how many variations, exactly when they were used, or the details of all of them. What is known, is that there were at least a couple styles used only on the early built center-door sedans and folding top couplets about September through November of 1914. Those included smaller lenses and bezels for the large lens, and a smaller lens with fatter bezel version. Those came in at least two hinge variants that I have seen (sideways and angled).
At some point, as production delays for the new style open bodies were being ironed out, a new variant for the oil side and tail lamps was used for awhile. Several years ago, Royce P did some serious research on the bringing out of the new open style cars. Memory is not perfect, however, as I recall, less than fifty of the new style open runabouts were produced in December of 1914. IIRC less than 2000 of the new runabouts, and only a few touring cars were produced in January of 1915. Production of the new style didn't get really going until February of 1915. As I understand it, exact numbers may not be known. However, production of the 1914 style open cars continued into April of 1915 in order to fill purchase orders as production issues for the new style continued to be worked out and supplies for the earlier style used up. I suspect that in February of 1915, quite a lot of production was still in the earlier style cars.
The point of all that, is to illustrate that while these early interim side and tail lamps may have been used for maybe (?) two months? The amount of cars getting those lamps from the factory is not a huge number.
In era photos, usually the angle of the photo, coupled with poor lighting and shadows, very often does not definitively show whether the lamps are the early interim style or the much more common 1915 style.
Of course, the car does show some usage. It could be possible that the lamps might have been changed at some point. Really not very likely.
In spite of the poor quality of the photo? The angle and the lighting is perfect! Zooming in closely, it can be clearly seen that the oil sidelamps (diver's side absolutely, passenger's side likely?) are one of the early interim style lamps used in late calendar 1914 and early calendar 1915.
As I understand it from a couple serious researchers digging through the old Benson Ford archive some years back, no solid information is known about the lamps, who made all of them, how many variations, exactly when they were used, or the details of all of them. What is known, is that there were at least a couple styles used only on the early built center-door sedans and folding top couplets about September through November of 1914. Those included smaller lenses and bezels for the large lens, and a smaller lens with fatter bezel version. Those came in at least two hinge variants that I have seen (sideways and angled).
At some point, as production delays for the new style open bodies were being ironed out, a new variant for the oil side and tail lamps was used for awhile. Several years ago, Royce P did some serious research on the bringing out of the new open style cars. Memory is not perfect, however, as I recall, less than fifty of the new style open runabouts were produced in December of 1914. IIRC less than 2000 of the new runabouts, and only a few touring cars were produced in January of 1915. Production of the new style didn't get really going until February of 1915. As I understand it, exact numbers may not be known. However, production of the 1914 style open cars continued into April of 1915 in order to fill purchase orders as production issues for the new style continued to be worked out and supplies for the earlier style used up. I suspect that in February of 1915, quite a lot of production was still in the earlier style cars.
The point of all that, is to illustrate that while these early interim side and tail lamps may have been used for maybe (?) two months? The amount of cars getting those lamps from the factory is not a huge number.
In era photos, usually the angle of the photo, coupled with poor lighting and shadows, very often does not definitively show whether the lamps are the early interim style or the much more common 1915 style.
Of course, the car does show some usage. It could be possible that the lamps might have been changed at some point. Really not very likely.
-
Wayne Sheldon
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: T’s
Finally, spending a few minutes relaxing and looking at these photos again.
Photo number six is a good look at an improved two door (advertising sometimes called them a tudor) sedan. The angle of view should see a headlamp bar if the car had one? But no such bar appears to be there. So the car most likely is an early 1926 model. Note that the car has 21 inch wooden spoke wheels, and nickel plated radiator shell along with likely headlamp rims to match.
Photo five above it is a nice street scene, with a shiny new looking late 1915/'16 runabout. If it were a touring car, you would not be able to see the headlamp on the car behind it as the rear of a touring car fills out to near the inner edge of the rear fender.
I wonder how old the electric runabout was when that photo was taken?
Number seven is also a 1915/'16 model T, not certain about the body style. However, I think I can see the door hinge of a touring car's rear door ahead of the rear fender.
The car is well accessorized, with Hassler shock absorbers, a large Motometer, and update radiator shell and hood hiding the old style brass radiator. I see quite a few of those in era photographs.
Number eight has a military man with a center-door sedan. I don't know what is going on with that darkened headlamp?
Number ten, more military men with another interesting, and what appears to be, a 1915/'16 T runabout. Very interesting wire wheels on this one. I hope one of our wire wheel experts can identify them for us. Again, another late brass era T with a fancy upgrade to hide the old fashion brass radiator. The car also appears to have an added wishbone brace to the front axle, not one of the more common types.
Look closely at that rear fender. Does it look like a later crowned rear fender to you? Maybe the rear fender has been replaced?
I wonder when or where that photo was taken?
The garage photo, number twelve, looks like the garage of my dreams. A nice 1913/'14 touring car for regular use, a bit earlier touring car across from it for special tours. And I don't know what that big sporting roadster is that the fellow is working on, but I like it!
Photo thirteen should be looked at. A 1925 Canadian built touring car. Pay attention to the driver's door hinges, equal length by the way, and windshield with both upper and lower panes hinged.
Another fine bunch of photos! Thank you.
Photo number six is a good look at an improved two door (advertising sometimes called them a tudor) sedan. The angle of view should see a headlamp bar if the car had one? But no such bar appears to be there. So the car most likely is an early 1926 model. Note that the car has 21 inch wooden spoke wheels, and nickel plated radiator shell along with likely headlamp rims to match.
Photo five above it is a nice street scene, with a shiny new looking late 1915/'16 runabout. If it were a touring car, you would not be able to see the headlamp on the car behind it as the rear of a touring car fills out to near the inner edge of the rear fender.
I wonder how old the electric runabout was when that photo was taken?
Number seven is also a 1915/'16 model T, not certain about the body style. However, I think I can see the door hinge of a touring car's rear door ahead of the rear fender.
The car is well accessorized, with Hassler shock absorbers, a large Motometer, and update radiator shell and hood hiding the old style brass radiator. I see quite a few of those in era photographs.
Number eight has a military man with a center-door sedan. I don't know what is going on with that darkened headlamp?
Number ten, more military men with another interesting, and what appears to be, a 1915/'16 T runabout. Very interesting wire wheels on this one. I hope one of our wire wheel experts can identify them for us. Again, another late brass era T with a fancy upgrade to hide the old fashion brass radiator. The car also appears to have an added wishbone brace to the front axle, not one of the more common types.
Look closely at that rear fender. Does it look like a later crowned rear fender to you? Maybe the rear fender has been replaced?
I wonder when or where that photo was taken?
The garage photo, number twelve, looks like the garage of my dreams. A nice 1913/'14 touring car for regular use, a bit earlier touring car across from it for special tours. And I don't know what that big sporting roadster is that the fellow is working on, but I like it!
Photo thirteen should be looked at. A 1925 Canadian built touring car. Pay attention to the driver's door hinges, equal length by the way, and windshield with both upper and lower panes hinged.
Another fine bunch of photos! Thank you.