Distilled water with Antifreeze

[baltrusch]

I read an interesting article in "Secrets - Vintage Speed and Sport" which states you should not mix distilled water with antifreeze and was also promoting a Rislone product. However, you can read the article at "https://rislone.com/blog/cooling/why-yo ... -distilled water-in-your cooling-system". I believe that these coolant additives do help our engines to run cooler and helping to prevent electrolysis is good. I am looking forward to your comments!

[Drobnock]

Another topic that brings out comments.

I live in central Pennsylvania, and the winter temperatures are generally not to unbearable....I run in the T with 100% of the green stuff (since 1959) with no water and have not had an issue. Either freezing or over heating. And yes there is a water pump.

And I know that there are those that state I am wrong to do so.

[Norman Kling]

In an area like where I live with hard water. It leaves lime and sediment deposits. I use only distilled water with anti freeze. it rarely freezes here however we did have a winter one year where it got down to 18 degrees and actually had a pipe break in the attic which flooded the house. So anti-freeze is good. It also raises the boiling point so you don't produce as much steam as the engine gets hot. I have a clean radiator and cooling system and it stays that way with the mixture. I use 50-50 green stuff. No water pump.
Norm

[John Codman]

It sounds counter-intuitive, but pure antifreeze has a higher freezing temperature then 50-50 Glycol and water. I'm not going to tell you not to run 100% antifreeze, but there are no advantages to running straight antifreeze, and several disadvantages to it. Having said that, if it's working for you, go with it.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It sounds counter-intuitive, but pure antifreeze has a higher freezing temperature then 50-50 Glycol and water. I'm not going to tell you not to run 100% antifreeze, but there are no advantages to running straight antifreeze, and several disadvantages to it. Having said that, if it's working for you, go with it.

Nobody is suggesting running 100% antifreeze. The question was about using distilled water with antifreeze, versus tap water with antifreeze.

[Steve Jelf]

What is the alternative to distilled water? Tap water? Puh-leeze. In most places the mineral content of tap water makes it a bad choice. In the approximate center of the lower 48, a 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water works for me.

[big2bird]

If concerned, buy pre mixed 50-50. They use DI water.

I would never use soft water.

[big2bird]

Another way to look at it is a T cools like a steam iron. What do you use in a steam iron? Distilled.

[KMcoldcars]

Hey guys, look at the numbers. Water has better heat dissipation than a water - antifreeze mix, so straight water cools better. However, when it gets cold water freezes so in some areas the mix may be a good choice. A water - antifreeze mix may have a higher boiling point than straight water, but not enough to make a difference. In modern cars the mix will show a higher boiling temp but that is mainly due to the high pressure of the closed system. Model Ts are not a closed system. Their radiators do not operate under pressure. They are at one atmosphere. Anti freeze does have rust inhibitors in it, which is good.
For rust protection in my 1916 coupelet I use water and Water Wetter, which also allow the T to run a little cooler. The T lives in the garage and does not need protection from freezing.
For cars that will not see freezing weather, use water and some sort of rust protection. For cars that will see freezing temps, use water and antifreeze mix. Do not ever use straight antifreeze. It does not cool as well as water or the mix.
If your car overheats with straight water you need to clean out the system, get rid of the water pump, or get a new radiator.
The preceding is my understanding of the properties of antifreeze. My mind is already made up so do not bother trying to confuse me with facts.

[big2bird]

Yes, water conducts heat better than coolant.

Antifreeze raises the boiling point, so the thermosyphon system does not circulate as fast.

[John Codman]

What is the alternative to distilled water? Tap water? Puh-leeze. In most places the mineral content of tap water makes it a bad choice. In the approximate center of the lower 48, a 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water works for me.

I run the 50-50 mixture, but I'll bet a nickel that Ford didn't put distilled water in products; I'll bet another nickel that my T has never had distilled water in it. I'll be doggoned if I'm going to put purer water in my car then in myself.

[speedytinc]

What is the alternative to distilled water? Tap water? Puh-leeze. In most places the mineral content of tap water makes it a bad choice. In the approximate center of the lower 48, a 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water works for me.

I run the 50-50 mixture, but I'll bet a nickel that Ford didn't put distilled water in products; I'll bet another nickel that my T has never had distilled water in it. I'll be doggoned if I'm going to put purer water in my car then in myself.

Then you or the next caretaker will suffer the consequences of mineral deposits in your cooling system to the extent of the mineral content of your water. I salute your freedom to do as you will.

[RVA23T]

Dissolved soilds/minerals in non distilled water provide "food" for the redox (oxidation and reaction) and electrolysis processes that is not the cast-iron in your block.
The Ph may be more important.

[Steve Jelf]

I think it was in one of the FB groups that a guy said he buys 50-50 pre-mixed because mixing it yourself is "too confusing".

[BHarper]

In regard to what coolant to run during the freezing winter months here in the Shire, the Old Timers always advised to use water from the brook and not from the pond because the pond water freezes and the brook never freezes.

[TXGOAT2]

Well, of course the brook never freezes! That's because it has ripples!! Ripples, waves, all the same. Does the ocean ever freeze? Noooo! I mean, if the ocean froze, the ships could not go, and we'd all still be stuck in England driving those itsy bitsy cars...

[TRDxB2]

Some facts
-Most agree that Model T engine operating temperature between 170-190°F
-Water boils at 212°F
-Water's high heat capacity and thermal conductivity allow it to absorb and transfer heat more effectively, making it an ideal coolant for various applications.
-Anti-freeze & Coolant specifications for boiling points are for pressurized systems.
-Anti-freeze & Coolant specifications for freezing points are independent of a pressurized system.
-A pressurized system significantly increases the boiling point of coolant. For example, a 15-psi radiator cap can raise the boiling point of a 50/50 coolant mixture by 45°F.
-Rislone® Hy-per Cool™ Super Coolant (and others) containTechnology wetting agents that make a system dissipate more heat more efficiently, reducing engine temperatures by up to 25°F helping to prevent overheating.
-A 50/50 mix of coolant and water in a car's pressurized cooling system typically operates within a range of 190-220°F
-The Model T uses a thermosyphon engine coolant system using the natural movement of heated fluid to circulate coolant and remove heat from the engine. This method relies on the principle of convection, where heated coolant becomes less dense and rises, pulling cooler coolant behind it. No pumps or other mechanical devices are required for coolant circulation.
-Distilled water is“ionically hungry,” so it will actually strip electrons from the metals in a cooling system as it attempts to chemically re-balance itself.
-Softened water has removed the impurities and minerals during the distillation process buy than replaces the stripped electrons with a sodium ion. making it ionically balanced. The process used is reverse osmosis that eliminates contaminants such as lead, pesticides, heavy metals, and fluorides.

Okay so what?
-Model T's cooling system is unpressurized so its boiling point is dependent upon altitude.
-The coolant chart shows that the best ratio of water/coolant is 60% coolant. Higher rations give a negative effect on the freezing point.
-The pressure chart gives a good indication of boiling point based on antifreeze mix.
-Use Softened water

Conclusion:
-The higher the elevation the lower the boiling point of water is naturally, but more concern on freezing in the winter. So selecting a coolant ratio based on freezing point. The boiling point will be lower naturally & in selecting based on the freezing point
-If you cause the boiling point to be to low, then the thermosyphon action may be ineffective. Then this could effect the engine efficient operating temperature, 170-190°F.

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[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Here's how I handle it. I just don't care... Water, Prestone and down the road I go.

People waaay overthink stuff.

Have fun!

[TRDxB2]

Here's how I handle it. I just don't care... Water, Prestone and down the road I go.

People waaay overthink stuff.

Have fun!

I actually agree with you. That's why I provided all the possible thinking and it ends up with just the 50/50 mix like all the manufacturers recommend

[Henry K. Lee]

Bingo Jerry and Frank! Tap water is an "Inducer"! People and companies want to sell you more than you need. Anyone need nitrogen for your tires....,

Hank

[Drobnock]

""What is the alternative to distilled water? Tap water? Puh-leeze. In most places the mineral content of tap water makes it a bad choice. In the approximate center of the lower 48, a 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water works for me.""

The water from a dehumidifier?

[DanTreace]

Here’s another 2 cents….just my recent experience. Used ‘12 original brass radiator in good condition, no leaks. Cleaned it with 30% vinegar, lots of stuff cleared. Super rinsed, then my usual aprox. 50/50 green stuff and distilled water.

Ran too hot, around 218, after short runs. So drained that mix and rinsed.

Then used only distilled water but added a quart of Rislone Super Cool. Then ran and temp stayed at 180, did a parade that week air temps in the 80s and still ran normal. Just my view but this stuff worked in my T.

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[big2bird]

I'd try that Dan.

For flushing, use Thermocure. Best thing since sliced bread.

[1925 Touring]

If its cold, mix 50,50 antifreeze, or drain it.
Unless you're making a high performance speedster, does it really matter? I throw 50 50 in mine with distilled water and don't give it a second thought. Top it off and go.
The model t is practically a glorified gocart. It dosent need to be rocket science.
Find whatever works for you and use it, chances are it will be different for someone on the east coast than in the middle of arizona.
At least that my opinion...

Drive the car and have fun, after all, thats what the hobby is for.

[mbowen]

This discussion is causing me to run low on popcorn…

[Craig Leach]

Here in Arizona the water is so hard! How
hard is it? I have seen it eat holes in a half
inch thick cast iron fire pump in 4 years with
anodes and dissolve grade 5 bolts that hold
the pump together. Distilled water is the
Best option to mix with coolant never use tap
water in Arizona. I mix my coolant 25% with
75% distilled water unless I can find DI water.
Craig.

[jab35]

"Does the ocean ever freeze? Noooo!"
Brilliant!! Just use ocean water for coolant, plenty of it and more being made every day, YMMV-drive careful. jb

[babychadwick]

2 different things being considered...
First the leaving of deposits from minerals
Second corrosion/electrolysis from different metals.

Try playing around marine motors and you can really get some popcorn for this

[John Codman]

It sounds counter-intuitive, but pure antifreeze has a higher freezing temperature then 50-50 Glycol and water. I'm not going to tell you not to run 100% antifreeze, but there are no advantages to running straight antifreeze, and several disadvantages to it. Having said that, if it's working for you, go with it.

Nobody is suggesting running 100% antifreeze. The question was about using distilled water with antifreeze, versus tap water with antifreeze.

Actually the second post in this thread did just that.

[John Codman]

Here's how I handle it. I just don't care... Water, Prestone and down the road I go.

People waaay overthink stuff.

Have fun!

I actually agree with you. That's why I provided all the possible thinking and it ends up with just the 50/50 mix like all the manufacturers recommend

I agree too.

[TXGOAT2]

I believe that commercial antifreeze products have an additive package designed to prevent corrosion, among several other issues. I'm pretty sure that the additive(s) would eliminate any disadvantage related to distilled water, which is, after all, just water. Distilled water is very similar to rainwater, which Ford specifically recommended. Fresh rainwater may contain oxygen and carbonic acid, which bottled distilled water will not.
Using straight antifreeze is not recommended and not good practice, according to the people who make anti-freeze, but what do they know?
One of the big contributors to corrosion in Model T cooling systems combustion gasses getting into the water jacket due to head gasket leakage or combustion gas leakage due to hairline cracks. Even very slight leakage of combustion gases into the water jacket will cause severe corrosion issues and promote electrolysis. Hard water is to be avoided, and keeping oxygen out of the system, so far as is possible, is a good idea. I believe that using an overflow tank system attached to the radiator overflow pipe would go a long way toward reducing oxygen in the coolant, while adding a few extra square inches of cooling surface to the radiator by keeping the upper radiator tank full. If you choose to use a water pump, make every effort to be sure that the water pump seal does not leak air into the system when the engine is running. Aerated coolant is the last thing you want. Old style water pumps are capable of leaking air into the system when the engine is running, especially at higher RPM, and yet not leak any coolant when the engine is stopped.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It sounds counter-intuitive, but pure antifreeze has a higher freezing temperature then 50-50 Glycol and water. I'm not going to tell you not to run 100% antifreeze, but there are no advantages to running straight antifreeze, and several disadvantages to it. Having said that, if it's working for you, go with it.

Nobody is suggesting running 100% antifreeze. The question was about using distilled water with antifreeze, versus tap water with antifreeze.

Actually the second post in this thread did just that.

Apologies! I missed that one.

[love2T's]

I think it was in one of the FB groups that a guy said he buys 50-50 pre-mixed because mixing it yourself is "too confusing".

Should this guy even DRIVE a model T?
Do they let him vote?

[love2T's]

Here's how I handle it. I just don't care... Water, Prestone and down the road I go.

People waaay overthink stuff.

Have fun!

Dang straight Skippy! Spot on.

[John Codman]

What is the alternative to distilled water? Tap water? Puh-leeze. In most places the mineral content of tap water makes it a bad choice. In the approximate center of the lower 48, a 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water works for me.

I run the 50-50 mixture, but I'll bet a nickel that Ford didn't put distilled water in products; I'll bet another nickel that my T has never had distilled water in it. I'll be doggoned if I'm going to put purer water in my car then in myself.

Then you or the next caretaker will suffer the consequences of mineral deposits in your cooling system to the extent of the mineral content of your water. I salute your freedom to do as you will.

As I said earlier, I doubt my T has ever had distilled water in it's cooling system. When I bought the T I pulled the head just for inspection; the cooling system was clean. It has gone 98 years without distilled water, and I'm not going to change things now. The Glycol-based coolants all have anti-rust chemicals in them, and I am not going to overthink this.

[WillyR]

I use 50/50 unborn baby seal urine and antifreeze in all my veekles, it matches my seat covers, and steering wheel wrap, and trench coat...

[speedytinc]

I heard Unicorn tears make a great additive. Guaranteed to lower operating temperatures 6.5 degrees.

[TXGOAT2]

Responsible motorists today are moving away from baby seal urine (BSU) to Microplastics. Microplastics-based coolant products assure faster acceleration, higher top speeds, and up to 60% better gas mileage.

[Rich Bingham]

Finally !! Some sensible and informed posts to this thread. Thanks fellows !!

(anyone seen any unicorns lately ?)

[Craig Leach]

If ocean water doesn’t freeze what the
Heck did the Titanic run into???

[TXGOAT2]

Probably a goat.

[tdump]

If ocean water doesn’t freeze what the
Heck did the Titanic run into???

frozen baby seal urine


no way i am putting the water out of my well into my engine. my grandfather put well water in the 91 ford truck i inherited from him and when i had to replace the radiator the cooling system was filthy,had almost literal mud in it

[Craig Leach]

Mack,
There was not enough automobiles in the world to produce the amount of CO2 to melt the polar ice cap & kill off enough polar bears that
there would a sufficient amount of baby seal urine to make a big enough chunk of ice to sink a ship that size. It had to be a goat.
Craig.

[TXGOAT2]

Seriously, what the Titanic hit was almost certainly a fresh water berg calved from a glacier, and not "sea Ice".

[Tim Moore]

I use the additive dihydrogen monoxide with ethylene glycol. This is used in race cars and long haul trucking along with industrial applications for heat exchange.

[tdump]

Mack,
There was not enough automobiles in the world to produce the amount of CO2 to melt the polar ice cap & kill off enough polar bears that
there would a sufficient amount of baby seal urine to make a big enough chunk of ice to sink a ship that size. It had to be a goat.
Craig.

ok, a dodge leaking distilled water!

[Dan Hatch]

MBRT was what all the old timers used. Cools and seals leaks at same time!

[Craig Leach]

Dihydrogen Monoxide is the best but it is a respiratory irritant & if exposed to to much @ one time it can be immediately fatal & everyone that is exposed to it will eventually die.

Craig.

[speedytinc]

Dihydrogen Monoxide is the best but it is a respiratory irritant & if exposed to to much @ one time it can be immediately fatal & everyone that is exposed to it will eventually die. IMG_2569.jpg
Craig.

Exposing these facts will lead to the state of California to ban it.
Carbon dioxide has already be deemed to be a "Green house" gas.

[Tim Moore]

Yes acute exposure can cause sudden death but chronic exposure has positive health benefits. Elite athletes actually use it as a legal performance enhancer.

Carbon dioxide is actually a compound trees crave to manufacture oxygen for our use. Trees supply us oxygen to live so we can supply them with carbon dioxide. When we die and are buried the trees claim us again as fertilizer. Don't trust trees, I cut them down and burn them for heat.