Building a 1924 roadster pickup

[1925 Touring]

EDIT: TO BE CLEAR, THIS CAR IS NOT GETTING CHOPPED UP, THE TOURING BODY WILL BE SAVED AND A COREECT ROADSTER BODY INSTALLED.

The adventure begins!
I am going to try and document my progress here on the forum of working on converting our 1924 touring into a roadster pickup. My uncle bought this car a few years ago with the intention of it being my first T. When we got it home, we did have it running once. We found that it was mixing oil and antifreeze, when we drained the radiator it was tan and milky. That pretty much marked the end of working on the car, other than having the radiator fixed and painted. It was pushed into the corner of the garage and there it sat. Later, as my graduation gift from high school, I acquired my 1922 touring. That has kept me busy for the betrer part of 2 years, and I've done a lot of work to it, with the current project of rebuilding a good engine for it. Fast forward to early this spring, and I get the bright idea of converting the old 1924 into a pickup. I've wanted a T pickup, and after doing a lot of work on my 22 touring, I've gotten pretty comfortable working on Model T's. I've been gathering parts and pieces this spring and summer, so far with a roadster body and soon to be wood kit being the major items. I've gone through most of our T parts both mine, and my late grandpa's, and found a lot of miscellaneous parts that I would like to put to use. About 3 weeks ago, I dug the car out of the corner of the garage and out into the open. Since then, it's been gnawing on me to get it running. I got a few other smaller projects going too, and with a few of them done, I decided to try and get the car running this week. It's been too hot and humid to paint the set of wheels for our '25, and I'm waiting on a few small things to complete that, so I started working on the 'basket case' as it has become known in the family.
With this thread, I hope to document and share the journey of converting our 1924 touring into a pickup. I don't see too many of this type of thing on the forum - going from start to finish with a project of this size, and I've enjoyed following the few projects that others have shared and hope to do the same with this. My goal with this car is to make it a driver. I dont plan on making it a showpiece, but something I can drive, and take places without worrying about a gravel road or a few scratches.

EDIT: TO BE CLEAR, THIS CAR IS NOT GETTING CHOPPED UP, THE TOURING BODY WILL BE SAVED AND A COREECT ROADSTER BODY INSTALLED.

[1925 Touring]

The first thing I had to do was pull it out of the back corner of the garage where we had put it after we bought it. I was able to jack the 20 centerdoor up and put it on dollies and get it out of the way. I was able to put the touring in gear and use the crank to pull itself out of the corner and eventually into the open. (All the tires were flat).

[1925 Touring]

I started working on getting the car ready to run this week after work when it wasn't too hot. I found a lot of the headbolts loose, so I tightened them up and filled the radiator with water and left the drain plug out of the pan. I rebuilt a coilbox quick because we had stole it off to replace the one that went bad on the 25. I replaced one of the tires with an old spare I have, and aired up the rest. One has a chunk out of it and you can see the cord, so that needs to go too. This saturday, I went through the fuel system. I took the carb apart and sediment bulb and cleaned everything. The gas tank was full of old gas and dirt. I poured vinegar in and flushed it out the best I could. After that, I was happy to see my fluid level in the radiator had not moved much so I'm hoping that I don't have a cracked block or anything. The front wheel bearings were very bad. They both fell apart when I removed them. I replaced those and with a new battery and some gas, I primed it, and it started! It ran great! I am very happy how easily it started. I let it run a bit and drove it a few inches. The handbrake, I found needs to be replaced. The car was idling, I was in the car when the lever released and it put itself into high gear. Luckily it didn't go far but the gear and pawl needs replacement. I was able to drive the car around the block and up and down the road a little. I'm very happy how responsive it is.

[Original Smith]

Don't do it! It's fine the way it is. Find a top for it somewhere.

[1925 Touring]

I was able to drive the car a little, the rear end makes some noise, and the steering is loose, otherwise it went well.
Except for one small problem.
This is the second time now a headlight lens has fallen out and broke onto the road!
Unfortunately this lens isn't just a ford H lens, but a neat aftermarket one.
I've since removed the other lens, but if anyone has one of these lenses, I'd be very interested!
It says 'top - lecalite junior - 8 1/8 inches - pat. 12-12-16, 5-1-17.'

Again, I'd be interested if someone has one of these.

[1925 Touring]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WcwEuu ... p=drivesdk

Hopefully the link works.
As of this posting, this is what I've accomplished so far.

More to come...

[Dan Hatch]

I have mixed emotions.
On one hand I hate to see a nice touring cut up to be a cut off touring.
Then the other side is makes my stuff worth more.
If it was me I would find a real Roadster Pickup and not make another CUT OFF TOURING.
But it is your car do what you want.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I really wish you would reconsider cutting up a nice, solid touring car. There are a lot of cut-off Touring cars out there, with all due respect to those who own one, they never look exactly right. If you want a Roadster pick-up, then buy or trade this car for one.

[1925 Touring]

To be clear, I AM NOT CUTTING UP A TOURING CAR.
I have a roadster body already for it, and will be removing and saving the existing body.
I have the same feelings. I do not want to cut up the body. It is a nice body and will be saved!

[Dan Hatch]

Well to quote the Wizard: “That is a horse of a different color “.
Glad you are not cutting up another Touring.

[Henry K. Lee]

Don't let others tell you what you can do or not do to your car! You own it, make it fit your needs! Welcome to America, the land of the free!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

To be clear, I AM NOT CUTTING UP A TOURING CAR.
I have a roadster body already for it, and will be removing and saving the existing body.
I have the same feelings. I do not want to cut up the body. It is a nice body and will be saved!

Austin,

Thanks so much for clarifying!

[babychadwick]

I was able to drive the car a little, the rear end makes some noise, and the steering is loose, otherwise it went well.
Except for one small problem.
This is the second time now a headlight lens has fallen out and broke onto the road!
Unfortunately this lens isn't just a ford H lens, but a neat aftermarket one.
I've since removed the other lens, but if anyone has one of these lenses, I'd be very interested!
It says 'top - lecalite junior - 8 1/8 inches - pat. 12-12-16, 5-1-17.'

Again, I'd be interested if someone has one of these.

20250628_203504.jpg


20250628_203512.jpg

Looks like an aftermarket lens in an earlier gas housing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/387331847402?_ ... R6KsspD4ZQ

[1925 Touring]

I was able to drive the car a little, the rear end makes some noise, and the steering is loose, otherwise it went well.
Except for one small problem.
This is the second time now a headlight lens has fallen out and broke onto the road!
Unfortunately this lens isn't just a ford H lens, but a neat aftermarket one.
I've since removed the other lens, but if anyone has one of these lenses, I'd be very interested!
It says 'top - lecalite junior - 8 1/8 inches - pat. 12-12-16, 5-1-17.'

Again, I'd be interested if someone has one of these.

20250628_203504.jpg


20250628_203512.jpg

Looks like an aftermarket lens in an earlier gas housing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/387331847402?_ ... R6KsspD4ZQ

Thank you for the lead!

[Charlie B in N.J.]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before Austin but retorquing that head would be a good idea if it's not leaking anything. Can't figure why the head bolts were loose. Maybe a torque wrench broke or a gasket replacement job got interrupted but retorque it.

[1925 Touring]

I've began the process, finally.
To build up, first, you must first tear down. We trailered the car down to where I wanted it. I spent a good part of this past weekend pulling the body off and getting it close to just the frame. I've been taking pictures, but probably not enough... (probably foreshadowing)
I did have to have a little fun driving the chassis around the yard before I tore it apart. It was kinda hard to get myself to tear the rad off and pull the car apart knowing it will be a while before I can do that again.
I'm hopefull the engine is sound, I got a few free starts with it even. I want to keep it mobile until I get my touring back and get the fordoor home again. This is all new to me so if anyone has any pointers, I'm all ears

[1925 Touring]

[Tmooreheadf]

Henry, liked your comment to do what he wants with his own car!

[1925 Touring]

The past few weeks I've been able to make good progress on the car. I tore the car the rest of the way apart, down to the frame and clean the frame up with an angle grinder and a sanding pad. I removed both the front and rear axles and tore each apart to gauge what all parts I needed. I have began to put the rear end back together, and I'm waiting on parts for the front end. I also cleaned up all the spring leaves, surprisingly they were in nice shape, all things considered. What I found interesting was all of the Ford scripting I found on all of the leaves. Each leave had at least one Ford script, and the main rear leaf over the rear axle head not one, not two, but three scripts on one leaf!
Someone had been in the rear axle not too long ago and replaced all of the bearings in both the drive shaft and the axle itself. But what I found interesting was the fact that they had saved and reused the original Ford thrust washers, so it is a good thing I decided to tear it apart. I am now in the process of testing and installing new brass washers. Another thing I found interesting was that there was a lot of flash rusting inside the differential. It did have an adequate amount of modern gear oil in the back, so maybe this is more common with today's gear oil, than with the original really sticky Grease.
As far as the front axle goes I am going to replace the axle itself because both spring purchases are welded in place and are worn out completely. The pitman arm is going to be replaced as well because it is worn both on the ball and shaft end. A 'new' wishbone is going to be added as well, as the ball on the old one was pretty chewed up.

The front crossmember was bent. I pounded it back the best I could. I had to cut the front engine mount/ spring Mount because the two nuts on the bottom were completely rusted and did not budge. Thankfully I have another mount to use.

The frame almost completely stripped down.

My one axle shaft was pretty pitted on the driver's side. Luckily I have a replacement that should work from another axle.

Oroginal ford U joint with script was in really good shape, all things considered, so it will be reused.

[1925 Touring]

Someone decided to weld the wishbone to the bottom of the front axle and therefore locked the spring perches in for life. I won't scrap the axle, but it will be a project for another day. As you can see, one of the perches is extremely worn, I elected to buy two new spring perches, I figure these parts take a lot of stress and load, I want them to be in good shape.

[Steve Jelf]

The hinges on your touring body say 1925. I expect the engine serial number will indicate 1924 after August 1.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG90.html

[1925 Touring]

The hinges on your touring body say 1925. I expect the engine serial number will indicate 1924 after August 1.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG90.html

Thanks, Steve. It's funny you mention that because my engine block is actually a replacement 26-27 without any number stamped in it.
I don't have pictures at the moment, but most of the structure in the forward cowl section of the body is still wood, with the exception of the floor board risers which are steel. A lot of the 25s to my knowledge are mostly steel in the front.

[1925 Touring]

A block with no name.

[1925 Touring]

I am making good progress on my roadster pickup. I spent a good portion of this past weekend painting the frame, springs, and smaller parts. It was good weather to do it, some of the last good days we will probably have this year. I got it in primer friday so it could dry and worked on painting it over the weekend. Rustoleum gloss black farm implement enamel paint with some krylon hardener. I used this combination on my wheels last winter and I liked the results. I'm not sure what I will use for the body yet, but there's a good chance it will be same. It's not a professional paint job by any means, but it's something I can afford and do myself, so I'm going to stick with that. I applied it with a small decent quality brush on the tight spots and rolled the rest with a high-density foam roller. It turned out pretty nice, all things considered.

[1925 Touring]

I disassembled, cleaned, and primed the leaf springs. Then I applied multiple coats of graphite spray, and assembled the two spring packs. The front spring went together pretty easy and I used all new hardware. The back spring pack gave me a little more trouble because of the contours and the fact that they are heavier duty. I ended up stacking the spring pack up until the clamps that hold the springs together, then with the rest of the leaves I turned them about 90° and was able to push the bolt through by hand without all of the leaves shifting on me and get the nut started. I tried the process of stacking all of the leaf springs and clamping them but had the issue of the leaves shifting on me and the hole for the bolt did not line up. I don't have any pictures of that process, unfortunately, because my hands were full. After the nut was started, I set the leaf spring down and pounded all of the leaves flat and tightened up the bolt. Then degreased any fingerprints and overspray from the graphite and painted with red primer, and then a coat of black rust-oleum. So far so good.

[1925 Touring]

I've also been busy working on both the front and rear axles. Currently I'm waiting for a shim order so I can complete the rear axle. As far as the front axle goes, I elected to replace my existing axle because the old one was worn, but more importantly both spring perches are welded in place. I found a nice axle in Grandpa's old stuff and I'm planning on using that. I have been sandblasting and painting the tie rods and other miscellaneous front end parts. I would have liked to have done this after the front axle was put together but with warm weather running out and I do not have a good place to do a lot of painting, I need to take the days I can get.
I started on the rear axle assembly after work one day last week and got the clearances temporarily around 5 thousanths clarence with a few shims underneath the thrust washers. At this time, I do not yet have ring gear shims, so when they arrive I will replace the thrust washer shims with ring gear shims. I could probably have set it up with shims under the thrust washer, but I like the idea of the ring gear shims better. I am also using both a used ring and pinion gear. Out of a few pieces of scrap aluminum, I made a crappy looking tool to hold the thrust washer as I sand it so I don't sand the pads in my fingers off! It works pretty nice it is just small enough where it has to flex a little bit so it actually grips into the grooves on the thrust washer.

[speedytinc]

Do not use ring gear shims. They can cause a failure down the road with sheared bolts.
Better to use shims under the steel thrust washers if needed.
However, the brass thrust washers are thicker than stock & usually need thinning for proper clearances in a non Rux rear end.(no shims needed)
You can add a shim to the DS spool. Those paper things are not gaskets, they are shims.
All this is covered in the axle rebuild book.

[1925 Touring]

Do not use ring gear shims. They can cause a failure down the road with sheared bolts.
Better to use shims under the steel thrust washers if needed.
However, the brass thrust washers are thicker than stock & usually need thinning for proper clearances in a non Rux rear end.(no shims needed)
You can add a shim to the DS spool. Those paper things are not gaskets, they are shims.
All this is covered in the axle rebuild book.

Interesting. I've read the opposite in the rear axle book. I understood it to be that it's better to have shims under the ring gear where possible and not the thrust washer to keep everything centered. Have you actually experienced or seen this failure? Not questioning you, simply curious, as this is the first I've heard of that. To me, if the bolts were drawn down tight, and properly saftied, it should stay tight and would be better than having them under the thrust washer where they will become slightly looser as the rear end wears and possibly shift around and cut the pins. I'd be more worried about shearing 2 small pins, rather than 10 7/16 bolts, myself.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I've rebuilt a few rear ends. I've never had to use ring gear shims and I agree with the other poster that they should be avoided. I set the gear mesh only by properly sizing the thickness of the bronze thrust washer and adjusting the depth of the pinion with the thickness of the gasket between the pinion bearing spool and the rear end housing. Honestly, more than a few times, I didn't even need to adjust the thickness of the bronze washer, (on the ring gear side). Also, don't pay much attention to your backlash dimension. Concentrate only on achieving a smooth running mesh between the ring & pinion. You may also find that your cotter pin needs to be bent in an "anchor" pattern, with the legs folding over the nut flats and not ove the end of the driveshaft. There's often minimal clearance between the driveshaft end and the differential carrier.

[Mark Nunn]

I had 9 steel thrust washers to choose from for my axle build. I mic'd them and marked each with their thickness. The variation in thickness let me select a combination of washers that minimized the amount of material to remove from the bronze washers. If you've already achieved the proper clearances, do not rearrange the steel washers. Keep them where they are.

[Allan]

Austin, the ring gear is under rotational stress being driven by the pinion gear. A shim doubles the interfaces between the two components, just as it does on the rear axle wheel interface when a shim is used. These are working combinations of components relying on absolute fit to make a solid joint. The differential side thrust washers sit on two pins which are merely locators. There is negligible load on these locator pins.

The paper shims between the pinion spool and diff centre are used to set backlash between the two gears. This is likely the process used on the production line at the time. Rarely have I ever found a pair of gears which have even wear patterns over the width of the teeth. We can do much better.

Mark is on the right track. If you have a stash of steel thrust washers, select the four with the greatest variation in thickness so you can juggle them from side to side to help set the pinion gear mesh.

In Ted Aschman's "Tinkerin Tips" volume two there is an article on getting the correct rolling fit between two straight cut gears. To achieve this the correct mesh pattern is required, and this involves moving the diff centre/crown wheel, NOT the pinion gear mesh.

With four different thickness steel thrust washers, and two new bronze thrust washers in place in place, in any order, assemble the two side halves and lightly fit three of the bolts to set the joint squarely. There will be a gap between the two housings. Measure this at different points. This measurement tells you how much the bronze thrust washers need to be machined down. If your gap measures .025" then remove .027", not all from just one bronze thrust. Aim to reduce the total .027" by leaving one thrust approx .010" thicker than the other, say .009" for one and .018" for the other.

Now you have a stack of steel discs and bronze thrust washers all of different thicknesses, that can be moved from one side of the diff centre to the other, in various combinations, meaning you can adjust the depth of the crown wheel mesh to the pinion. With reference to the diagrams in Ted's article, you can then attain a much better rolling fit between the gears. Sure, the diff may end up off centre, by as much as .015", but if you can tell that at the axle ends???? This method will produce its own backlash. It is what it is, not what you believe it should be using a different method.

You should check that the assembly does not bind any once bolted up. If it does, fit a paper gasket between the housings, and check again.

I know this goes against the grain in the rear axle handbook. It is not intended as a criticism of same or its authors.

Allan from down under.

Rarely have I ever found a pair of gears which have even wear patterns on each of the ears, across the width of the teeth

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Austin, the ring gear is under rotational stress being driven by the pinion gear. A shim doubles the interfaces between the two components, just as it does on the rear axle wheel interface when a shim is used. These are working combinations of components relying on absolute fit to make a solid joint. The differential side thrust washers sit on two pins which are merely locators. There is negligible load on these locator pins.

The paper shims between the pinion spool and diff centre are used to set backlash between the two gears. This is likely the process used on the production line at the time. Rarely have I ever found a pair of gears which have even wear patterns over the width of the teeth. We can do much better.

Mark is on the right track. If you have a stash of steel thrust washers, select the four with the greatest variation in thickness so you can juggle them from side to side to help set the pinion gear mesh.

In Ted Aschman's "Tinkerin Tips" volume two there is an article on getting the correct rolling fit between two straight cut gears. To achieve this the correct mesh pattern is required, and this involves moving the diff centre/crown wheel, NOT the pinion gear mesh.

With four different thickness steel thrust washers, and two new bronze thrust washers in place in place, in any order, assemble the two side halves and lightly fit three of the bolts to set the joint squarely. There will be a gap between the two housings. Measure this at different points. This measurement tells you how much the bronze thrust washers need to be machined down. If your gap measures .025" then remove .027", not all from just one bronze thrust. Aim to reduce the total .027" by leaving one thrust approx .010" thicker than the other, say .009" for one and .018" for the other.

Now you have a stack of steel discs and bronze thrust washers all of different thicknesses, that can be moved from one side of the diff centre to the other, in various combinations, meaning you can adjust the depth of the crown wheel mesh to the pinion. With reference to the diagrams in Ted's article, you can then attain a much better rolling fit between the gears. Sure, the diff may end up off centre, by as much as .015", but if you can tell that at the axle ends???? This method will produce its own backlash. It is what it is, not what you believe it should be using a different method.

You should check that the assembly does not bind any once bolted up. If it does, fit a paper gasket between the housings, and check again.

I know this goes against the grain in the rear axle handbook. It is not intended as a criticism of same or its authors.

Allan from down under.

Rarely have I ever found a pair of gears which have even wear patterns on each of the ears, across the width of the teeth

Alan,

This is all 100%, "spot on", excellent advice! It's exactly what I've been chiming on about for years, but as you state, it goes against common practice and gets largely ignored. It does, however, agree with gear design and how they are designed to properly mesh. Thank for taking the time to post this!

[Original Smith]

Why not build a real 1925 pickup? That is the year Ford built the first ones. They made a few prototypes in 1924, but they were first introduced in March of 1925. I built mine from scratch as a retirement project in 2003. It took me seven years to do the restoration using authentic genuine Ford parts, including the nuts and bolts. I did everything myself in my backyard and garage.