Looking to begin my “T life”

[JoshuaLevi]

Hello,
I’m a new member to this forum and also to the world of the Model T. My name is Joshua, I’m 47, divorced father to a kiddo that turns 18 in a few weeks, and an A&P/IA helicopter field mechanic by trade. I live in Hillsboro Oregon and work for a helicopter company in Northern California. I absolutely love what I do because it’s exciting, challenging, allows me to troubleshoot and maintain amazing machines, and really feeds my desire to have a great attention to detail.

I was informed of this forum by a Mr. Robert Middleton. I was given Mr. Middleton’s information from a Mr. Ron Pizer. I was put in contact with Mr. Pizer from my close friend Kyle Bushman. Mr. Middleton and Mr. Pizer were both very kind and helpful, and have extended the invitation to reach out to them with any questions I may have. I appreciate being a part of enthusiast groups who share a common interest. I’m a member of a local Corvette club and own a 2004 C5 Corvette and while I’m one of the youngest members, I feel very welcomed and love participating in the club events whenever I’m able.

I perform almost all the work on my own cars, and I enjoy working on everything from sewing machines to motorcycles, to helicopters and antique airplanes.

About 6 years ago I drove a Tuk Tuk (7hp, 2 stroke, pull start) 2000 miles across India. It was a great adventure. It was a 3 speed with a top speed of about 35mph, maybe 40 if you were going downhill. I had a few breakdowns but that was part of the fun. Getting up every day and not having a clue what was in store or how far I’d make it.

I find that as I’m getting older I am regressing with my use and enjoyment of technology. I have been learning film photography using a vintage 1960’s Rolleiflex wide camera and documenting my improvement in a photo album with notations being made on my 1937 Royal Deluxe typewriter.

I have a strong desire to find myself an old Model T that I can drive from Oregon to New York, and then take the Cannonball Run route back to California, and then drive it on back up the Pacific Coast Highway to home through the Redwoods. After that adventure I want to continue driving it very regularly, and take it on many long distance trips. I can’t explain why I have the desire to do this, I only know that I must do it.

I don’t know much (yet) about the Model T but I want to find one that isn’t fancy, that needs some love, and one that is craving for a life on the open road and a life of actual use and not just gathering dust in a garage or hangar or even worse, rotting in a field somewhere.

I’ve seen many really beautiful examples for sale and while I’m sure they would be a dream to drive, I feel that having one that’s a cream puff wouldn’t give me the opportunity to learn all I need to in order to be a proficient mechanic/caretaker. I also feel that taking a really nice one on this journey would be much easier than taking one that was a little more “rough” around the edges. I like challenges.

I am not looking for a basket case, nor am I looking for one that is too nice. I would like to find one that’s complete, preferably with the original engine. I don’t want to modify it unless it’s something period correct or internal that helps longevity but can’t really be seen. I appreciate resto-mods and custom cars for what they are but I really love stock vehicles and want to keep mine as original as I can.

I’m trying to keep the purchase price on the lower end, with the understanding and expectation that where I’ll be saving money is in my labor and doing the work myself. I love learning and I’m a good mechanic with great troubleshooting skills. I work hard, take notes, and have a thirst for knowledge.
When I find the T that’s meant for me, I plan on keeping it until I’m too old to care for it anymore. This isn’t a fix and flip. This is a fix and use. I’m not expecting charity, but I’m on the lookout for a good deal.

Thank you for listening to my ramble if you made it this far, and I appreciate any advice or pointers in my search for my T.

[A Whiteman]

Welcome to the hobby, and welcome to the forum.

All the best with your search and I do look forward to hearing how you get on in the adventure.

A page to start looking for an introduction to the T is: https://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

The Encyclopaedia section at this site is also full of information too.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Welcome! It appears that you have a great adventure ahead of you, (and several behind you as well!). Good luck in your search for a T capable of your plans.

FWIW, since you're exploring old tech, have a look into antique, wind-up phonographs as well.

[TXGOAT2]

With your range of skills and interests, you're very well equipped to enjoy owning and driving a Model T.

[Lil Teezy]

I can touch on a number of points here- At 53 I often feel like the youngest “old car guy”. I use tools designed and built in the thirties and forties at work and see the kids either shaking their heads in confusion or smiling sympathetically at the novel approach. I also like to get out of my routine and travel with no schedule or guarantee of success by taking off road trips into the high country and desert west. Driving a model T as my daily has become my favorite part of my day. I have a short commute across a small town and people really love to see the car!
My strongest suggestion tho, as a still relatively new T owner myself, is to buy a car that has already had most systems rebuilt even if it’s not your favorite year or body style. I started with a partially restored basket case and two unrestored, barn find cars as a way to spend a little bit of money, a little at a time. I really wanted a 27 roadster and at the time there weren’t many on the shelf and none in my budget. As fun as it was to set up a car from scratch (‘cause hanging out with Dave Huson every weekend for a year was an absolute hoot! ) it took way more time and way way way more money than buying a tour ready T. They definitely sell for less than it takes to restore them, like all old cars, but sort of “top out” relatively low on the cool/cost chart. As unfortunate as that is, it’s a reality for car lovers, we just take it on the chin and start another one, right? The model T really is about the least expensive old car to build and maintain but going through all the running gear one piece at a time for the first time is definitely pretty costly. I frequently see really nice completed cars for sale at a fraction of the cost of building mine. So if you can finance it or drop a big chunk at the outset you will be well ahead. Don’t worry, you will still have plenty of reasons to spend time playing with it!
The other really useful thing that I didn’t expect to have so much value was the set of Vintage Ford magazines that came with the project. Reading all the stories from the tours over the years and the technical articles about the different systems was extremely enlightening, I felt like I already knew what was wrong as problems arose. Seems like every tour article described some type of break down, the roadside fix made possible by the fraternity created from like minded-ness and the proper repairs done later on. The daily play by play made it seem more imperative than novel for these folks to get out driving and make it happen! If you follow this forum you will start to see the same issues discussed and can be prepared to deal by understanding them before they come up. As simple as the T is there are a lot of subtleties that have no real parallel experiences and can be frustrating for sure (guess how I know…) The original service manuals and related books are obviously important to own but having a big library of real life stories added a facet of understanding that I’m not sure I could ever drive enough to really encounter.
From my experience the Model T community is one of the most generous, thoughtful and intelligent groups of people you could ever be a part of. Regardless of your level of exposure there is always something to learn and someone willing to teach it. The handful of vendors and shops that cater to these is definitely a small faction but it’s made up of really well informed and righteous experts always willing to help. Combining that with all the inherent local knowledge compiled by regional clubs it’s the most “all are welcome” and “we’ve got you covered” hobby or lifestyle or whatever you want to call it I’ve ever encountered. Good luck and have fun hunting the classifieds! Easy to rant on the joy of having T that’s for sure! -Chris, in Boulder.

[Steve Jelf]

I was bitten by the Model T travel bug, and made four round trips between southern Kansas and Dearborn, Michigan. A mostly stock 1915 runabout was fine for that, as it was all in the relatively level middle of the continent. For a trip like you have in mind, I would make one important modification. East of Wheeling and west of Denver, a Model T should really have the only accessory recommended by Henry Ford and sold at Ford dealerships — the Ruckstell rear axle. The stock Model T has two gears. High gear is used for cruising and most other driving above a crawl. Low gear, for starting and/or steep climbing, is VERY slow, and is best avoided for distances that will overwork the driver's left foot. The Ruckstell adds a gear between low and high, for ascending and descending long grades. The Ruckstell practically requires the addition of auxiliary brakes.

There are jillions of other "upgrades" people inflict on their cars, and in general they are superfluous or counterproductive.

Adrian has posted a link to my page of articles, some of which will be helpful. As the field of Model T's is varied and covers 19 years, the following is a good place to start: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG98.htm.

[walber]

Intriguing discussion with real good advice.

Welcome to a whole new world of technology.

I highly recommend starting with a car that has a solid body and fits your level of presentable. However nice you want it to be from painted with patina to perfect. Likewise it should be running well. A Ruckstell is terrific when you hit hills. Dead stock is great and brings you to a whole new world. Some of the drive train can be related to more modern cars but there is no real equivalent to the joys of a T ignition. The original magneto, coils and timer can be great when properly set up but can be a challenge as well. There are tools to help with setup.

Get the service manual as well as the other books for the engine etc from the MTFCA. Great reading and ideas and eventually you will need them.

Best Wishes

In addition to this forum - join a local club. Terrific resource of knowledge, experience, encouragement as well as parts and or cars.

[JoshuaLevi]

Welcome to the hobby, and welcome to the forum.

All the best with your search and I do look forward to hearing how you get on in the adventure.

A page to start looking for an introduction to the T is: https://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html

The Encyclopaedia section at this site is also full of information too.

Thank you! I will bookmark that and look into it.

[JoshuaLevi]

Welcome! It appears that you have a great adventure ahead of you, (and several behind you as well!). Good luck in your search for a T capable of your plans.

FWIW, since you're exploring old tech, have a look into antique, wind-up phonographs as well.

Thanks for the reply. I have a record collection, no phonograph yet!

[JoshuaLevi]

With your range of skills and interests, you're very well equipped to enjoy owning and driving a Model T.

Thank you. I am very detail oriented and believe that any job worth doing, is worth doing right.

[JoshuaLevi]

I can touch on a number of points here- At 53 I often feel like the youngest “old car guy”. I use tools designed and built in the thirties and forties at work and see the kids either shaking their heads in confusion or smiling sympathetically at the novel approach. I also like to get out of my routine and travel with no schedule or guarantee of success by taking off road trips into the high country and desert west. Driving a model T as my daily has become my favorite part of my day. I have a short commute across a small town and people really love to see the car!
My strongest suggestion tho, as a still relatively new T owner myself, is to buy a car that has already had most systems rebuilt even if it’s not your favorite year or body style. I started with a partially restored basket case and two unrestored, barn find cars as a way to spend a little bit of money, a little at a time. I really wanted a 27 roadster and at the time there weren’t many on the shelf and none in my budget. As fun as it was to set up a car from scratch (‘cause hanging out with Dave Huson every weekend for a year was an absolute hoot! ) it took way more time and way way way more money than buying a tour ready T. They definitely sell for less than it takes to restore them, like all old cars, but sort of “top out” relatively low on the cool/cost chart. As unfortunate as that is, it’s a reality for car lovers, we just take it on the chin and start another one, right? The model T really is about the least expensive old car to build and maintain but going through all the running gear one piece at a time for the first time is definitely pretty costly. I frequently see really nice completed cars for sale at a fraction of the cost of building mine. So if you can finance it or drop a big chunk at the outset you will be well ahead. Don’t worry, you will still have plenty of reasons to spend time playing with it!
The other really useful thing that I didn’t expect to have so much value was the set of Vintage Ford magazines that came with the project. Reading all the stories from the tours over the years and the technical articles about the different systems was extremely enlightening, I felt like I already knew what was wrong as problems arose. Seems like every tour article described some type of break down, the roadside fix made possible by the fraternity created from like minded-ness and the proper repairs done later on. The daily play by play made it seem more imperative than novel for these folks to get out driving and make it happen! If you follow this forum you will start to see the same issues discussed and can be prepared to deal by understanding them before they come up. As simple as the T is there are a lot of subtleties that have no real parallel experiences and can be frustrating for sure (guess how I know…) The original service manuals and related books are obviously important to own but having a big library of real life stories added a facet of understanding that I’m not sure I could ever drive enough to really encounter.
From my experience the Model T community is one of the most generous, thoughtful and intelligent groups of people you could ever be a part of. Regardless of your level of exposure there is always something to learn and someone willing to teach it. The handful of vendors and shops that cater to these is definitely a small faction but it’s made up of really well informed and righteous experts always willing to help. Combining that with all the inherent local knowledge compiled by regional clubs it’s the most “all are welcome” and “we’ve got you covered” hobby or lifestyle or whatever you want to call it I’ve ever encountered. Good luck and have fun hunting the classifieds! Easy to rant on the joy of having T that’s for sure! -Chris, in Boulder.

Thank you for the response, I appreciate your thoughts. I (mostly) restored an old basket case Piper L4 Grasshopper (airplane) and basket cases are really tough because you don't usually know what's missing and some parts are very hard to find. I will be on the lookout for old magazines, I like that tip and I'm always looking for old books on aviation anyway. It's good to hear that the community is so welcoming. I will definitely be looking into local clubs.

[JoshuaLevi]

I was bitten by the Model T travel bug, and made four round trips between southern Kansas and Dearborn, Michigan. A mostly stock 1915 runabout was fine for that, as it was all in the relatively level middle of the continent. For a trip like you have in mind, I would make one important modification. East of Wheeling and west of Denver, a Model T should really have the only accessory recommended by Henry Ford and sold at Ford dealerships — the Ruckstell rear axle. The stock Model T has two gears. High gear is used for cruising and most other driving above a crawl. Low gear, for starting and/or steep climbing, is VERY slow, and is best avoided for distances that will overwork the driver's left foot. The Ruckstell adds a gear between low and high, for ascending and descending long grades. The Ruckstell practically requires the addition of auxiliary brakes.

There are jillions of other "upgrades" people inflict on their cars, and in general they are superfluous or counterproductive.

Adrian has posted a link to my page of articles, some of which will be helpful. As the field of Model T's is varied and covers 19 years, the following is a good place to start: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG98.htm.

Thanks for replying! I've heard of those Ruckstell axles. That is exactly the type of "upgrade" that would be a choice in my book. Thank you so much!

[JoshuaLevi]

Intriguing discussion with real good advice.

Welcome to a whole new world of technology.

I highly recommend starting with a car that has a solid body and fits your level of presentable. However nice you want it to be from painted with patina to perfect. Likewise it should be running well. A Ruckstell is terrific when you hit hills. Dead stock is great and brings you to a whole new world. Some of the drive train can be related to more modern cars but there is no real equivalent to the joys of a T ignition. The original magneto, coils and timer can be great when properly set up but can be a challenge as well. There are tools to help with setup.

Get the service manual as well as the other books for the engine etc from the MTFCA. Great reading and ideas and eventually you will need them.

Best Wishes

In addition to this forum - join a local club. Terrific resource of knowledge, experience, encouragement as well as parts and or cars.

I appreciate your input. Working in aviation has given me exposure to magnetos and I've restored some old Bendix "breadbox" mags and an old Continental A65 engine (air cooled). Looks like paying for a membership to the MTFCA is in order.

[speedytinc]

Your past mechanical experience will be helpful, but a T is a different animal.
Clearances & specifications are quite a bit looser than modern stuff.
Follow the service manual & ask for the "tricks" experienced builders have developed.

[Randy SR]

Welcome to the T world! Hillsboro Oregon is a good place to own a Model T, because there are many local resources. I'm a retired helicopter pilot, living a little north east of you in Washington. I recommend you check out the Rose City Model T Club, great people with a world of knowledge. I'm rebuilding the engine and transmission on my '26 roadster and have checked out several tools from the club which were absolutely necessary! Club members have been more than generous with their time and expertise. The Portland swap meet (always in April) is a great source for parts, and I've gotten parts from people all over the Pacific North West.

Living in the hills up here, I would agree that the Ruckstell is something I wouldn't be without, but I know a couple of locals who drive all over without one.

I would agree that the best way to start is with a complete and running car, especially since your budget is tight. A decent car can be had for significantly less than the cost of the parts, and there will still be plenty of things to do to keep you busy tinkering.

[Bryant]

Hey welcome to the show!
You joined the club and that’s the best resource you can have. Go to the car classifieds and pick out a T. There is pretty much every example to choose from. If it’s to far away check the service section of this forum. Their are some reputable auto transporters listed.
Post some pictures when you get one and let the games begin!

Bryant

[JoshuaLevi]

Your past mechanical experience will be helpful, but a T is a different animal.
Clearances & specifications are quite a bit looser than modern stuff.
Follow the service manual & ask for the "tricks" experienced builders have developed.

Hello and thanks for the advice! I've worked as an antique aircraft restorer (1930's and 40's) and it was very satisfying to bring those old pieces back to life. The T will present me with many opportunities to learn new skills and I look forward to it.

[JoshuaLevi]

Welcome to the T world! Hillsboro Oregon is a good place to own a Model T, because there are many local resources. I'm a retired helicopter pilot, living a little north east of you in Washington. I recommend you check out the Rose City Model T Club, great people with a world of knowledge. I'm rebuilding the engine and transmission on my '26 roadster and have checked out several tools from the club which were absolutely necessary! Club members have been more than generous with their time and expertise. The Portland swap meet (always in April) is a great source for parts, and I've gotten parts from people all over the Pacific North West.

Living in the hills up here, I would agree that the Ruckstell is something I wouldn't be without, but I know a couple of locals who drive all over without one.

I would agree that the best way to start is with a complete and running car, especially since your budget is tight. A decent car can be had for significantly less than the cost of the parts, and there will still be plenty of things to do to keep you busy tinkering.

Hello! I appreciate the advice. I think I'm leaning towards one that is pretty much ready to go and it looks like there Is quite a few T's available out there. It is looking like a pretty good time price-wise and doesn't look like the prices are going up any time soon. I think a lot of the 1st and second generation enthusiasts are dying off and these haven't caught on with a new generation yet. As with any antique or older vehicle (almost) you can always get them cheaper restored than you will pay doing the restoration yourself. Whatever I do will be done for the love of it with no expectation of a profit. I won't be selling it anyway. I will check out the Rose City club that you recommended and I really appreciate the tips!

[JoshuaLevi]

Hey welcome to the show!
You joined the club and that’s the best resource you can have. Go to the car classifieds and pick out a T. There is pretty much every example to choose from. If it’s to far away check the service section of this forum. Their are some reputable auto transporters listed.
Post some pictures when you get one and let the games begin!

Bryant

Thank you sir! There really are a lot to choose from. The right one will find me.

[RajoRacer]

Welcome Joshua ! Look up Scott & Stacy Hills in town - great & knowledgeable T guys ! I'm up near Tacoma & know of a couple good deals coming available. What body style suits your fancy ?

[JoshuaLevi]

Welcome Joshua ! Look up Scott & Stacy Hills in town - great & knowledgeable T guys ! I'm up near Tacoma & know of a couple good deals coming available. What body style suits your fancy ?

Thank you! I will. I'm not in a rush to get a T. It's more important to me that I find the "right" one for me. I like them all and don't really care which body style I end up with. I prefer wood spokes and want one with the original engine if possible. Nothing is a deal breaker though. Just needs to be right.

[John Codman]

Hi Joshua! As we say, welcome to the affliction. Although I'm not an A&P, I was a general aviation pilot for 44 years. My "ride" was a PA24. It was the first Comanche built and it's serial number was PA24-1. I had a great friend who was an outstanding A&P and ran his own business who did all of the service work that I couldn't legally do on my Comanche (and my two previous airplanes). When he died of Cancer, I didn't want a second-best to be doing my service (no offense intended) and gave up flying. The last I knew, the Comanche is now living in Georgia. I often helped Jim when a third hand was required, and have done some service work (under his supervision) on Enstrom Helicopters. His business was a factory certified Enstrom service facility, and I have helped install main rotor blades (in the same room with impossible for one person), and even a couple of engines.
My advice is is that you buy the best T that you can afford. For the trip that you describe, you want everything to be in really good shape. If you buy a car that is already in very good condition it will save you a lot of time and money. One tip I will venture is to check the radiator over carefully. Older radiators that just will not cool the engine properly are a common Model T issue. This comes up here a lot, but as of now there is only one supplier of new Model T radiators and they are on the pricey side. I believe that you can buy a core if it's a black era or later model T, but good radiator shops are getting scarce, and although with your skills it's possible that you could recore the radiator by yourself, I would prefer to have it done by a pro. You probably don't have much experience soldering radiators with your background. Keep us posted when you find your T.

[Oldav8tor]

Joshua - for what you're planning I would avoid the early cars. 1920 and newer would probably best suit your needs. They have a starter, generator and electrical system which became available as an option in 1919. The radiator is a little bigger than the brass cars and one in good shape or a reproduction with an improved core should work for you. The early cars had fixed rims so if you got a flat you repaired the tube at the side of the road. Around 1919 Demountable rims became available in which the rims were removable (held on by 4 lugs) and you could carry quick-change spares.

Steve's recommendation of a Ruckstell for the hilly country is a good one. I'm putting one on this winter. I would also suggest floating rear safety hubs (remove strain from your axle) and rear disc brakes (work wet or dry, forward and reverse.) While you're working on the drive train replace the hyatt pinion bearing on the drive shaft with a modern unit. Regardless of whether you go the Ruckstell route, be sure your differential thrust washers are bronze, not babbitt!

A comment about brakes - the original T brakes work by squeezing a drum attached to the transmission. If any of your driveline components fail, you not only have no power, you have no brakes! The parking brake might help a little but if you're trying to keep from rolling backwards on a steep incline I wouldn't count on it. Rocky Mountain and AC brakes are mechanical and need adjustment whereas the discs are hydraulic.

If you'd like a little extra power, one of the high compression heads available will give you a little boost. I have a Z head and the engine on a dyno would hit 26 HP with a NH carb.

I have a 1917 Touring which I've tried to optimize for safe touring. I've had it in the flatlands and the mountains and it performed well. My reproduction radiator with a more modern core has never overheated - even in hill country on 90+° days. I have floating hubs and disc brakes and suggest that combo to any serious tourer. I installed a Scott Conger "full-flow" valve in my NH Carb which gives me adequate fuel pressure as the level of fuel in the tank gets low. Although the 17 did not come with demountable rims, someone in the past converted the car to them. Since the 17 is a non-electrical car, I modified it (Later hogshead and flywheel with ring gear) to accept a starter and installed a modern 12 volt WOSP starter (which avoids the problems of the original Ford.) I installed LED's in the headlights and modified the kerosene lamps to accept LED's as well. On the back I have a removable (held by magnets) LED light bar for brakes and turn signals. To charge the battery, I use a Regan-designed circuit called a "Hot Shot" which diverts some of the magneto output to put a small charge on the battery. Unless I drive at night a lot the "Hot Shot" keeps the battery charged. I have put over 12,000 miles on my car and think it is reliable enough to contemplate trips like you plan as long as I carry tools and some spare parts

You'll have one advantage if you travel cross-country. Keep people on this site informed of your progress and expect help if you need it as well as offers of meals and overnight lodging. The Model T community is a small one and we take care of our own. On that note, if you haven't joined a club yet, do so. Depending where you are, there should be a MTFCA or MTFCI chapter within reasonable distance.

Enjoy the journey!!!