Re: Balloon tires

[Luxford]

The only balloon tires mentioned over the years appear to be the normal 21 inch variety.
But there were aircraft style balloon tires also available in the T era. In 1923/24 the balloon tire was taking hold. The makers of Buffalo wheels had available larger section baloon tires. Here is an ad from Ford Owner Dealer January 1924 it mentions 30x 3/12 wheels so they were obviously offering them to Ford owners.
These wheels in disc form were adopted by the Army and the Marines on vehicles they were adapting for use over rough ground.
Something they began looking at after WW1 before the Jeep was developed when WW2 arrived.
Has anyone come across such disc wheels on a Model T or the remains of one?
Attached a photo of the Army's version in tests in 1926.
the Owner Dealer ad from 1924 and close up of mention of the tire sizes.

[Dan Hatch]

TT had a larger front tire size that was either aftermarket or an option. If I remember correctly it was the size listed in the ad.
Was not a clincher. Just regular tire. The rim fit a standard 30x3.5 wheel. Only have seen one set. Sold the rims to someone in Luray Va many moons ago.

[TXGOAT2]

The term "Balloon tires" in the T era typically referred to any low pressure tire, including those which look very skinny to us today, such as the 4.40/4.50 X 21 tires. Prior to around 1928, tires were usually 3" to 4" in nominal width, with tread around 3" wide, if any tread was present, and tire pressures were typically in the 50 to 65 PSI range. Balloon tires, besides being wider, and of somewhat different construction, could be run at pressures in the 25 to 30 PSI range. All sorts of aftermarket and specialty tires and wheels were on the market, but most of them never came into wide use. A look at Ford's advertising in the late T era will show what Ford offered as standard and optional wheel and tire equipment.

[speedytinc]

Low pressure 30 x 3.5" tires do/did exist.
I know of & have seen a(ONE) local 23 touring wearing 30 x 3.5" non clincher SPLIT rims.
Are these considered "balloon" tires? They can be run with lower pressures (high 20#-low 30#) With the soft ride of 21's.
Since being aware of such rims, I have been looking @ swap meets for these rims. I have not found any yet.

A fellow that frequents Argentina & the T club down there claimed they are/were quite common down there.

Thirdly, A few years back I purchased, in haste, a set of NOS non clincher 30 x 3.5" firestones, made in Argentina.

[TXGOAT2]

Big tires do not work well on stock Ts driven on the public roads. If you use your T for rock crawling or as a sand buggy or for mud hogging, the sky, or your wallet, is the limit.

[Kevin Pharis]

One of the surviving French built Montier T racing cars has Buffalo wire wheels fitted with 23” lock ring rims and 30”x3-1/2” straight side balloon tires. The wheels are beautiful! If only tires were still available…

Buffalo wheels with 21” rims are somewhat rare, and seem to be mostly found on speedsters. I had a set of 21” Buffalos on my ol ‘27 roadster and loved em! Tried a set on my ‘15 touring and hated the look.

[Allan]

Tyres inflated to pressures in the lower twentiy pound range were only usable on split rims. Hence, 21" split rims on later T's were often referred to as balloon tyres. Chev went to 23" split rims after clinchers, using 4.40 x 23" ballloon tyres Here in Australia you could also get 4.40 x 23" clincher tyres, often referred to as bolloon tyres, but these still required the usual high pressures.
Fat tyres for off road/rock hopping use are useless on a standard T. I once fitted some T hubs with 6.50 x 16 Chev rims and tyres. Remarkably, there was little difference in the diameter to the original clinchers. The car drove nicely on hard surfaces, but once I got out to the farm on loose surfaces and sandy tracks it was uncontrollable. I had to fight the steering the whole time, often allowing the car to follow ruts to make this easier. The T model steering is far too direct to absorb any of the shocks the road/track/rocks may throw at you. A proper steering box would be needed for serious off road use.

Allan from down under.

[TXGOAT2]

Low pressure tires cannot be used on rims made for high pressure tires, and high pressure tires cannot be run at low pressures. (Under 50 PSI)

[TXGOAT2]

You'd need a geared steering box, 15:1 or so, to run really big tires, and they'd probably hit the fenders in off road situations. Another problem is that the frame rail is not strong enough to handle the stress with a steering box suited for large, soft tires, especially in off-road use. The engine pan and engine mounts would have probably needed re-working. I believe that Ford resisted things like four wheel brakes, fatter tires, and lower geared steering boxes in the mid to late '20s due to the extensive re-engineering that would be necessary to have a reliable product. To see how Ford would have had to modify the T for such changes, look at a Model A.

[Luxford]

It seems that problems presented here by some were not problems at all. No great modifications were needed to the steering, the disc wheeled balloon tires gave extra height to the vehicleand better ride over rough ground, the disc wheels did not clog with mud easily and no alternative steering box was needed to replace the Ford one. A larger steering wheel and a strengthened drag link was used and it was decided by the Army and Marines that the cheaper 30 by 5" balloon tire was satisfactory so the airplane Balloon tire version was eliminated. As the Army spent several years (1920 to 1926) and ended up with a balloon tired Ford with very capable off road features the system obviously worked.
These vehicles were a further experiment after the Chase tracked Ford offered to the Army after the war proved unsuitable. The track design prevented fast speeds and tires were quickly destroyed by the track. At the time materials available to make the tracks were not good enough to handle the forces involved. You have all seen the Chase track Ford at Ford Benning,
This led to the Army going a different way and the Ford was the most suitable chassis to make what was first called the "reconnaissance" Ford but later changed to the "cross country" Ford. The Model T was cheap, strong, light and already proven in war for its toughness and reliable and extra parts to improve its capability such as extra gear boxes for better climbing and heads to improve power were available. The Army used accessory Ford products available to improve their vehicle capabilities so purchasing the Buffalo disc wheels was an easy fix. The Army design made alterations to help the vehicle perform better, they lifted the frame added canvas mudguards for certain variations and had different body configerations depending what exactly the vehicle was meant to do. None of these vehicles had imput from Ford they were redesigned to do a job for the Army/Marines in case of war. The exercise was to have available a vehicle which soldiers could use on the battle front. After the final designs were shown to government the specifications were filed as in 1926 no one saw any hint of a future war. 1939 changed all that and with advancments in engineering a new specification for the Jeep was developed and sent to contract and the Model T was long gone.

Included in the Jeep specifications - light weight, high ground clearance, short wheel base etc was "4 wheel drive". Jesse Livingood always believed the Army (or by someone who passed it on to them) had stolen of his 4 wheel drive Model T in Chicago as he had been told it was sighted at the Aberdeen proving grounds, the same place the Army's cross country Fords were developed, so did the Army add 4 wheel drive having tested it with Jesse's 4 wheel drive Ford and knew it was a distinct advantage to have it included.

Here is a copy of the Marine version of the cross country balloon equiped vehicle as well as the Chase tracked Ford.
The balloon tires on disc wheels have a demountable rim with tire mounted on the side of the vehicles which would make it easier to change a flat tire if required. No one was trying to mount balloon tire on rims for high pressure tires, the balloon tire had their own disc ( and wire wheels) made for them, thats what the Buffalo wheels were advertising - a new better softer riding wheel for the Ford and other makes.

[TXGOAT2]

The 5.50 X 21 6 ply tires currently available can be used on Model T s with 21" wheels, like the 1926-27 Ford wire wheels. They have an overall diameter of about 31" or a little more. Some aspects of performance and handling will suffer, and some others will improve. For best ride on typical public roadways, the 4.40 /4.50 X 21 4-ply reproduction Firestone tire is a good choice. Overall diameter is close to 31". Acceleration, braking, and chassis parts loading will be close to that provided by 30 X 3.5 high pressure tires. Traction and ride quality will be improved, and steering effort will be about the same, if 5:1 steering gears and a 17" steering wheel are used. These tires will perform well on the lighter cars with 24 to 27 PSI, cold. On the heavier cars or cars often carrying substantial loads, 28 to 32 PSI will give good results.