HELP. MODEL T NOISE

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Chaffins
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HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:29 pm

This one has me stumped. My 1913 Roadster runs great. No engine noise when idling, revved up or driving the rear end with the rear wheels off the ground. Can increase the speed with no appreciable noise. However, when driving the car on the street there is an appreciable pounding noise with a relative constant rhythm. It gets worse when revved up but relative constant rpm. I have checked the care for anything that might cause a rattle under load of driving but found nothing. Has anyone else had this problem?


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HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:29 pm

This one has me stumped. My 1913 Roadster runs great. No engine noise when idling, revved up or driving the rear end with the rear wheels off the ground. Can increase the speed with no appreciable noise. However, when driving the car on the street there is an appreciable pounding noise with a relative constant rhythm. It gets worse when revved up but relative constant rpm. I have checked the care for anything that might cause a rattle under load of driving but found nothing. Has anyone else had this problem?

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by perry kete » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:13 pm

"Pounding noise with a relative constant rhythm"...open the trunk and let the guy out!
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by JTT3 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:21 pm

What’s the front cam bearing look like?


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 pm

Only thing I can think of, is pistons touching Head, or Head Gasket.

Herm


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 pm

It gets worse when revved up but constant RPM. I might not quite get that. Would it be seams in the road on which you are driving causing the noise? Or could it be a bad tire? Sometimes a bump on a tire can cause a constant noise when driving. If on a back tire, it might not cause any shimmy, just a noise. Also could be caused by a wheel bearing.
Norm


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by erkbrn » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:41 pm

Sounds exactly like a problem I had with another classic car a while back (mind you, it wasn't a model T). Ended up being a bad driveshaft u-joint. Didn't make any noise at idle, but was a constant rhythmic thumping that increased with road speed but not always with engine speed. With the rear wheels off the ground, there wasn't enough stress on the joint for it to be binding enough to make the sound.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by John kuehn » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:56 pm

Axle bearing or something in the driveline that’s worked itself loose. Your description could mean a lot of things but generally sounds like a driveline issue since it happens when you actually drive the car. It might really show up if the car was driven on a bumpy road other than a highway or blacktop road.

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:33 pm

Have you checked the front wheel bearings? The only thing not moving when its was jacked up were the front wheels and the only difference when driving are moving front wheels.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Mike Howell » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:58 pm

That sounds like it might be a broken rear axle ring gear/pinion tooth.
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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by principal6553 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:08 pm

I had a rhythmic thumping noise that ended up being the hand crank. The spring came loose and the crank was banging.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Scottio » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:32 pm

I know this sounds very elementary but that kind of noise, only under load, may be a bad main bearing. Just a thought. Good luck.

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by John Warren » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:50 pm

Main bearings
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Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by John Warren » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Also seen cam bearings make noise.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:58 pm

Chris, thank you for fixing my bobo. Problem is the website does not acknowledge that you have posted a message. Friends, I am very familure with cam bearing noise as I manufacture canshafts. That's not it. When I restored the car the-joint was in excellent shape but if I cannot find it I may check that. Main bearings are not the problem. Tires have no bumps and front wheel bearings are fine. took off the rear wheels and nothing rubbing back there. Did find a noise in my windshield but that noise id different from what I hear on the road. Thanks for your inputs. Glen


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by DickC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:19 pm

I had a similar noise on one of my T's and found the cause almost too late. I heard the thumping noise when I started my ride but it was not too alarming and I continued my run. I came to a slight incline and gave it some gas which caused the thumping to ge a little louder and then I noticed a forward motion slipping sensation. I stopped and tried to start again but it was like the clutch/bands were slipping. I turned around and headed back to the shop. There was a small hill leading to the driveway and shop and I applied brakes but NO BRAKE action. The cause ended up to be a broken drive shaft under the bearing race at the pinion end. The race applied enough friction at first but not when going up a hill. I would have thought that because the race is pressed on that that would have been the strongest area on a drive shaft. Just something to look at if you cant find anything else.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by John kuehn » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:16 am

It might be some work but if the rump thump noise continues maybe changing out the rear axle assembly might be the thing to do. With your supply of parts you might have a good rear end to put under it. If the noise continues at least you know it not the rear axle assembly. But it would be nice if the noise stopped!
Just a thought.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:44 pm

FINALLY FOUND A SOURCE OF NOISE. WHEN ENGINE IS IDELING AT A VERY FAST RATE THE WINDSHIELD STARTS TO RATTLE. IT SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE MY PROBLEM BUT NOT AS LOUD. WILL HAVE TO FIX THIS AND SEEC WHAT HAPPINS. GLEN


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by DickC » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:35 pm

If that is the case, you may not want to fix it. I don't have a speedometer on my 1912 hack and so speed is always a question. I found that the right front fender makes a small rattle at about 20 mph. The windshield brace has a rattle at about 30 mph. Above 40 mph I RATTLE!!! If you have a speedometer, fix it.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Finally found the source of some noises. I fixed the noise coming from the windshield , then found another noise. As I was running the car water started spewing out of the radiator overflow and wouldn't stop. I found that the overflow tube had become unsoldered to the upper neck and had broken off at the lower end where it exits the tank. The tube had been rattling inside the radiator. After fixing this problem I test drove the car. Much quieter but still have the low pitched rattle or knock only when driving. With the other noises gone I can now tell that the rattle does increase RPM with the engine.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:34 pm

DISCONNECTED ONE SPARK PLUG WIRE AT A TIME, NOISE GOT WORSE, NOT BETTER WITH EVERY PLUG. NOT BEARINGS.

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Matt in California » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:13 pm

Glen,
I am so glad to hear that you are getting your '13 T on the road and humble enough to ask questions with all your experience!

I think that you should share the story of your 13 T. How long you worked on the project, etc?

Matt


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:05 pm

Experience isn't everything. Yes I have years of experience but this one has me stumped. As I recall the noise started when t replaced the original crank with a Dubats crank. Checked for interference when I installed it but found none. Will pull the pan and check again. As for the cars history, it came from Golden Colorado. It was owned by dynamite Bill Williams. He built roads up in the mountains around Golden, Colorado. His wife would haul dynamite up to where he was working in the 1913 Roadster. They pulled off the right door and threw it away so she could more easily exit the car if she encountered problems going up and down the hills. When I got the car it was in shambles. The firewall was rotted away. The turtle Deck was flat from loading dynamite boxes on top of it. But all in all the body was still intact. Had to replace some wood in the body but it came out very good. All of the fenders had been repaired with pieces of metal and rivets. I left them all as is. Real fun car and I love driving it as it was. Hope I can find my problem. Glen


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Pulled lower pan and checked new crankshaft clearance. No clearance problems. The only thing left is transmission, U-joint or rear axle. But how would these make a knock heard in the engine? HELP


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:49 pm

WHERE ARE ALL THE EXPERTS?

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:59 pm

What sound does a wheel make, as you are driving, if a spoke's dowel shaped end is broken or there is loose spoke ?


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:29 pm

MY WHEELS ARE ALL NEW gLEN

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Matt in California » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Chaffins wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:05 pm
As for the cars history, it came from Golden Colorado. It was owned by dynamite Bill Williams. He built roads up in the mountains around Golden, Colorado. His wife would haul dynamite up to where he was working in the 1913 Roadster. They pulled off the right door and threw it away so she could more easily exit the car if she encountered problems going up and down the hills. When I got the car it was in shambles. The firewall was rotted away. The turtle Deck was flat from loading dynamite boxes on top of it...
Glen,
My brother-in-law had a similar story. His grandfather worked on road construction company somewhere in the hills outside of LA basin. He was known as a great driver very, so he had the job of transporting the dynamite. :? As a precaution they had the “Blacksmith” weld up a metal box for transporting it. He also transported workers to the site. When he brought up safety to his boss, his boss said that was not an issue because he was a good driver! :o Later it became a concern that transporting dynamite and blasting caps together was not a good idea. His boss suggested he just keep those in a different place on the vehicle... :shock: Evidentially his boss is right, he survived the job. :roll:

Is this the same car you’ve had one into restore for many, many, many years?

I hope you make some progress finding your noise issues!

Matt


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:22 pm

I HAVE RESTORED THE 1913 MECHANICALLY, BUT LEFT IT AS IS COSMETICALLY WITH ALL THE FENDER REPAIRS AND RUST. I HAD TO BEAT OUT THE TURTLE DECK TO RESTORE ITS ORIGINAL SHAPE. LOVE DRIVING THAT CAR. IT GETS MORE ATTENTION AT THE CAR SHOWS THAN ALL OF THE RESTORED CARS. I NOW HAVE 3 TOURING CARS TO RESTORE. I AM WORKING ON THE 1914 AND STILL HAVE TO DO MY 1909 AND 1911 TOURINGS. I DOUBT THAT I WILL LIVE LONG ENOUGH.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:25 pm

UPDATE: MY NOISE TURNED OUT TO BE TIMING. SOME HOW THE TIMING WAS ADVANCED TOO FAR. SIMPLE PROBLEM AND SIMPLE FIX BUT WAS DRIVING ME CRAZY.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by DickC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:36 pm

Glen, do you still have a mag? If so, could one of the magnets become loose and move out to hit the pan or something when you rev the engine but settle back at idle? Jut thinking, Dick C.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by John kuehn » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:53 pm

Those dad gum simple things will drive you crazy! But when you find them you are really glad and wonder how come I did that. Was it in the linkage?


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:46 pm

YOU SELDOM SEE A LOOSE MAGNET, LOOSE MAG COILS ARE MORE COMMON, EITHER WAY IT IS CATASTROPHIC. MY MAG IS JUST FINE. MY TIMER WAS ADVANCED TOO FAR. I THOUGHT I HAD CHECK IT BEFORE BUT APPARENTLY DID NOT. MY GOOF. I AM IMBERRASED THAT I MISSED THIS ONE THE FIRST TIME AROUND. IT WAS SO BASIC. BUT NOW IT'S FIXED THANK GOD. I HATE RATTLES.


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Dallas Landers » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:09 pm

Glad you found it Glen. I fixed all the rattels and squeeks in mine also. I turned the key off! :lol:

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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Quickm007 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 am

Good catch Dick!

Sometimes other oinions and view were so helpful. :idea:
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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by autoneer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:03 pm

Glad you found it, Glen, and glad that it was so simple. I can't tell you how many times I have been doing a simple job like setting the timing, then been interrupted by a phone call, or the wife, and returned to the job thinking I had finished that part of it.
I have a weird noise in the #2 cylinder of the 1910 Open Runabout, that goes away if you disconnect the #2 plug. I changed the entire revolving lower end, crank, rods, pistons, properly adjusted the mains but the noise now persists. When driving it initially after changing all the above, the noise was not present, but has now steadily increased to where it was before. Almost sounds like a loud tappet but is not. I saw no marks on the head, but need to re-check that again after driving it more. The other suspicious thing is that #2 cylinder has a sleeve, which I did not measure. The car has all its original features, including the 2 piece timer and 1 piece pan, so is a pain to work on, but runs like a scared rabbit, and is a blast to drive! This was Howard Caccia's car, and he was notoriously precise about how he did things,....at least back in the 1960's when he did this one. Best, Jeff


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Re: HELP. MODEL T NOISE

Post by Chaffins » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:31 pm

I REMEMBER HOWARD WELL, HE WAS A GREAT GUY AND QUITE THE CRAFTSMAN. WE MISS HIM VERY MUCH GLEN

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