Fender Mythbuster ?

[TRDxB2]

I had these fenders since 1973 (purchased from Norm Miller in Davenport Iowa) and sold them last year. I thought they would spark some interesting discussion. Fender A is a left front and B is a right front in both sets of photos. So...................

[DanTreace]

Late date of production explains those early style and late apron style, both in the late wide bead molding.

These were made late and served as replacements too for the low radiator or high radiator cars or trucks.

Note that each have the raised built-in “washer” at the fender to running board holes.

[TRDxB2]

Dan, On the B fender, what was the extra metal in the orange oval for. This wasn't an add on, was actual piece of fender.

[KWTownsend]

Frank-

The "extra piece" circled in the orange oval fits up against the radiator apron. It gives the car a more "massive" appearance.

: ^ )

[Ruxstel24]

The extra piece on the right fender is a "filler" for the high radiator splash pan.
The one on the right is a commercial style also, I do believe...

[2nighthawks]

That piece of metal is part of Ford's ongoing attempt at "modernizing", or maybe you'd say "streamlining". When the '24 came out with the new panel (can't remember what it's called) that fit under the radiator and served to hide the front spring, that piece of metal added to the front edge of the fender was designed to gracefully blend in with the new panel under the radiator.

(.....not to answer for Dan, but once in a great while someone asks about something that I actually might know a little something about,.... )....harold

[2nighthawks]

Frank,....the guys above type faster than me and said it better anyway,.....harold

[TRDxB2]

So the sometimes reference to the "B" fender as "Commercial" style is misleading in causing one to think of some sort of Model reference. I like the reference of "Modernized" style fender much better (have a problem applying "streamlined" to a Model T). Thanks for all the input Frank

[John kuehn]

The fenders without the lip are for the 17-22 T’s. The later fenders with the lip are for the 23-25 T’s.
A lot of T’s have their fenders mixed up as far as the 17-25 Black era T’s are concerned. Reason being they would all fit and interchange with each other.
There were some minor differences here and there but I guess Ford thought it really made a difference.

[RajoRacer]

I have a "family purchased new in 1924" TT C-Cab Covered Express which has the lipped fender w/no extra rolled bead as in the "B" photo above.

[Ruxstel24]

Fender A has the curved rib in the black circle that follows the contour of the splash apron.
Commercial vehicles, as I understand it, may have not had a splash apron and that rib is near the edge of the inside/back of the fenders.
My 24 has the curved ribs AND the folded over piece on the front.

[Wayne Sheldon]

From 1917 into early '23, the front fenders didn't change much. A few minor details like the size of the holes the hood latches passed through.
Late '23 through '25 models had three slightly different fenders. All had the folded valiance to blend to the radiator apron/shield. I do not know the timelines, but the offset near the running board changed somewhere around '24, then came what is often called the "commercial" fender. Legend has it that it was intended for the trucks. However, that doesn't quite make sense. Henry was not about to make different fenders at a higher managing or logistics expense for the trucks. In much (not all) the '25 model year, both cars and trucks used those fenders. The "commercial" term likely came from the familiarity from them being continued to be used for the trucks through the end of production in 1927. Here, it did make sense to use different fenders, as the cost to manufacture the earlier style fender was much lower than the large complicated stamping of the car fenders. Henry may have had to cave in to production of an "improved" and more stylish car, but the truck didn't need such pretty niceties.

A long time ago, when I was a kid getting into this hobby, the use of the "commercial" fenders was a common point of discussion at club meetings. One good friend was restoring a late '25 touring car at the time. It was a solid intact original car, and had the late fenders. The conventional wisdom of the day said that they were "WRONG!" And he needed to replace them with "correct" fenders! I had no real expertise in those days, but was still quite opinionated (who? ME?). Several other good model T people (including Ed Archer) argued that they believed there was too much evidence that the "commercial" fenders were in fact used on many '25 model Ts, and since his car appeared to have had them since new, he should go ahead and restore it that way. So he did. Later research found that they were right, and he did the right thing by keeping it the way it was.
The fact is, that probably a hundred (hundreds?) of '25 Ts had their front fenders replaced back then, and most are now wrong to this day. Even before that incident, I had personally spoken with nearly a dozen people that had already changed the front fenders on their restorations. Opinionated me, I figured that many people could be wrong.

[George Mills]

Wayne,

That’s why I call them “bead out” and “bead in” style fenders!

Whoever came up with the moniker “commercial fender” did a disservice to the community. Sure once they were applied to commercial chassis they stayed with that style until end of production on chassis....but most, but not all 25’s were built with bead in front fenders.

Back in the 70’s and probably before, like you said...THE conventional wisdom was bead out on All cars, and if you had bead under you were pilloried until you changed them! (Same thing held for squarish splash aprons on closed cars...they just had to be replaced with curved ones!).

I had acquired a 25 Fordor that I had every reason to think was original as to form. Had bead under and square splash aprons. I caught heck from everyone in the local club that I had a bitsey and needed to change them! I stood tall as money stayed in my way, then when I had the money I bought someone’s restored fenders with bead out, and curved splash aprons at Hershey. Stopped and sat with Austin Mitchell and then Bruce McCalley, and they convinced me to leave it alone. Glad I did!

[John kuehn]

George,
I have a September 24 Coupe that I had inherited from my Grandfather in 1959 that had the so called commercial plain fenders on it. I finally restored it around 10 years ago and replaced the bent front fenders with some real nice so called commercial fenders.
As far as offending the purists I really don’t care. I tried to restore the car to pretty much the way I acquired it and how he had it. It was a second owner car he bought in 1942. But I did replace the 28 Model A wheels that were welded to the T hubs with original wood wheels. That definitely was not “original!” I found the remains of 21 inch T wood wheels behind his garage and assumed they originally came with the car.
I am amazed at how far and how much some will go to build their T to what they think it was. To each his own I guess.

[George Mills]

For what it is worth...

The late Bruce really tried to seek out a champion for the black era machines and pick up where he/they left off...but he had no takers before he passed.

He shared with me that he felt that his gang of co-authors merely skimmed the surface on the black era cars thinking pretty much all the same, and only later in life did he realize that during their reign, the black era cars probably had just as many changes as the brass era did.

[Dollisdad]

We have all combinations of the front (crowned) fenders, so we know they existed. Their use on which vehicle is not completely known. Here is what I have seen. I have not seen a passenger type fender (the skin has the bead inward that follows the leading edge of splash apron) as well as the central crowned area, on an original TT.I don’t remember seeing commercial fenders (the bead follows the outer edge of the skin and has a wider crowned central area) on original pre 22 passenger vehicles. I have owned a couple original 1925 passenger cars that had the commercial style front fenders with the bead passing under the splash aprons. These cars were untouched originals. So why would a car have a fender that traditionally was on a TT? We don’t know. We can only look at this issue and use our experience as manufacturers and try to take a guess. Possibly as it became clear that a complete new fender design (1926) was on the horizon and Ford not being one to waste material looked at the existing obsolete fender inventories and found the the passenger fender count would not fulfill projected demand to the end of 1925 model run, but found the supply of commercial fenders exceeded demand due to much lower TT production numbers, so they elected to use what they had to reach the end of 1925 passenger production. Then to avoid retooling the TT front frame to accept the 26 style bracket and fender( witch would also require a new running board and relocating the r/b brackets) they continued to use the old design to productions end. Only a theory.