Steel battery boxes – which cars used them?

[Eric Sole]

My 27 Roadster hasn't had a battery box for many years now, but I just bought an Optima battery and am trying to figure out how to "hide" it. I'd love to have a metal battery box and lid but that is beyond my budget right now.

The original battery setup has been fun to investigate. It’s impressive to think just how many steel battery boxes were manufactured considering that every starter equipped Model T left the factory with one… or did they?

According to the Ford Parts book for the Model T (published in 1928) the 5150-B Battery bracket assembly was to be “Used with steel battery box or rubber case battery”.

This might lead us to believe that the later rubber case batteries available in the 26-27 models, according to the parts list page shown below, did not require a steel battery box or perhaps did not even fit into one.

Parts_list_Battery_b.jpg (89.17 KiB) Viewed 5332 times

This is my interpretation of the subject. Those of you who have access to an original wood battery case and a rubber battery case could tell the rest of us their dimensions. Maybe they are the same size or maybe they are not, I have not yet been able to find this information.

This sounds like an effective cost-saving solution, typically found on the Model T. Could anyone corroborate my theory that the 26-27 Model T with starter and a rubber case battery did not come from the factory with a steel battery box?

[CudaMan]

The currently available reproduction battery boxes and lids are designed to hold a modern Group 1 battery with no shimming, they are not made to the original Ford dimensions.

If you want to put a modern Group 1 battery in an OEM Ford metal box, it will easily fit, but will have to be shimmed up and on the sides to fit snugly in the box at the correct height.

OEM Ford Wood battery cases show up on Ebay occasionally, the OEM Ford rubber ones not as much. Unfortunately, a modern Group 1 battery will not fit inside an OEM Ford wood battery case, the inside dimensions of the case are too small.

If you have an original Ford battery case and want to make a metal box with the original Ford dimensions for it, you can make your own box using the dimensions in the thread below, that's what I did. I was lucky enough to be able to get an original lid from Larry Smith

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29 ... 1205077586

I also bought a reproduction battery top from the old New Castle Battery company and turned my OEM Ford wood battery case into a display battery:

https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21246

[Eric Sole]

Thanks for your reply Mark.

The question I am pondering over is simply this:

Did 26-27 Model Ts have steel battery boxes from the factory?

[AandTman]

I made a bunch of them several years ago just like in the thread above. Just the bottoms, not the tops. If I have any left, I will send you a email.
I am on the road right now.
Don

[DanTreace]

Thanks for your reply Mark.

The question I am pondering over is simply this:

Did 26-27 Model Ts have steel battery boxes from the factory?

Factory photo Improved Car chassis.

Clearly shows metal lid and metal battery box in battery hanger.

[Eric Sole]

Thanks Dan. That picture of the improved car chassis certainly does show a steel battery box cover.

I am still perplexed by the statement made in the Parts list for the battery bracket assembly "*Used with steel battery box or rubber case battery".

Could there have been a series of improved cars fitted with the rubber case battery which did not then require a steel battery box?

[TRDxB2]

Alternative? Since an Optima battery is a sealed unit it can be laid in any position, on its side, even on an angle.
This is a Group 2 Height (in): 8-3/4 Inch Length (in): 10-3/8 Inch Width (in): 6-7/8 Inch
Optima 6volt Height (in): 8-1/8 Inch Length (in): 10-1/16 Inch Width (in): 3-5/8 Inch
T battery is a Group 1 Height (in): 8-3/4 Inch Length (in): 9 Inch) Width (in): 6-7/8 Inch

[Allan]

You could read the parts book as indicating that a rubber case battery will fit in the tin box, just like the wood box battery did. Without a battery kill switch, I would never again run a battery in a tin box with the inspection plate and the lid in place. They severely restrict your ability to access the battery in an emergency.

Allan from down under.

[Eric Sole]

Thanks for your suggestions guys. For now I will probably make a wooden box to house the Optima battery. I do agree with you Allan, that an insulated box (wood) gives peace of mind in case a battery were to shift for whatever reason and make contact between the positive post and ground.

Could someone who has access to a wood case and a rubber case post the dimensions here? If a rubber case will not fit in the original steel box then my question is answered.

The mention of the rubber case battery specifically in the Parts list in the call at the bottom of page Thirty-nine surely makes it stand out as being different from the wood case battery. This sounds nitpicky, but it's part of the fun of studying and discovering little details of the Model T. I hope someone else here finds it as interesting as I do.

[Allan]

Eric, it was not the tin box that was the problem. It was access to the battery. To be able to drop a lead of, the floorboards had to come out, the battery hold down clamps wrenched undone, and the battery box lid removed, before access to the battery terrminals was gained.
Allan from down under.

[CudaMan]

My OEM Ford wood battery case measures as follows (external dimensions):

8 7/8 inches long
7 1/8 inches wide
8 inches tall

The U-shaped metal handles add another 3/4 inch to the height, for a total height of 8 3/4 inches to the tops of the handles.

The boards are a true 1/2 inch thick, so that would make the internal dimensions:

7 7/8 inches long
6 1/8 inches wide
7 1/2 inches tall

I don't have a rubber case to measure.

[Eric Sole]

Thanks for the measurements Mark. This is a good start.

[DanTreace]

Eric

I put an Optima in the repro metal box , fit is fine.

This pic is trial. Used wood strip to anchor with factory lid clips.

Later redid by fitting pair of corner edge blocks angle cut edges to wedge the base of the battery to anchor.

Finally put 1/4” plywood liner inside the metal lid as insulator to keep terminals free of metal contact.

Then locked lid on with factory clips on the lid.

[Eric Sole]

Hey Dan, I saw that picture earlier and had already decided to use your system for holding the Optima in place. Looks good.

Still fishing for someone who has access to an original Ford battery with the rubber case in order to get the dimensions. Anyone out there?

[TRDxB2]

Some info

VTG Richardson Company Ford Model T & A Battery Cell Box Overall measures 9"x9"x7" each cell compartment measures 7"x6"x2 3/8" does show wear for age but in nice overall useable condition

[Eric Sole]

Thank you Frank for the info on the rubber battery case. The 9 x 7 x 9 measurements provided by the seller on eBay sound like they may be rounded off, but if they are correct then the rubber case would indeed fit inside a steel battery box.

Even though it cost a bit more to produce steel battery boxes for all cars (and trucks), perhaps that was the safest way to guarantee that the top surface of the battery with its connectors and cable clamps would remain relatively clean and mud free.

Nevertheless, I remain perplexed by the statement made in the Parts list for the battery bracket assembly "*Used with steel battery box or rubber case battery".

We'll leave it at that unless someone might vouch that their original 26-27 never had a steel battery box.

[hah]

Can someone post what type of wood is used on the battery box with the 2 handles
Thank you,
John.

[Allan]

John, my auto machine shop owner suggests tree wood! "If you can't weld it, it's no use!", is another of his little homilies.

Allan from down under.

[hah]

Tree wood, that's precious! So, my next question is are there any other woods besides, "tree wood"?

[Mark Nunn]

Tree wood, that's precious! So, my next question is are there any other woods besides, "tree wood"?

Firewood

[hah]

Heres one for ya Mark, "driftwood"! Gotta love wood!

Come on man, really what type of wood? Its not driftwood or firewood, its more like maple or oak. Those types of wood. Your killing me, but I'm laughing.

[Russ_Furstnow]

Here are a few photos of a NOS, original, 1926-27 battery box and lid. The "cut-away" battery is an original dealer's display with a wood box showing one cell. The dimensions of the steel box are 9" long by 7 1/8" wide by 8" tall. As you can see, the cut-away battery fits perfectly into the steel battery box. It appears the cut-away battery box is made from oak. It is my belief that all Model T's came with a steel battery box from 1919 thru 1927. I hope this helps, Russ Furstnow

[Original Smith]

The battery box Russ posted is 100% correct, but the lid was actually used in 1925 too. Before that, they had rounded corners. I have no information on when Ford introduced the style we now use, but the earliest ones are different. I've sold probably a dozen exact copies of the original bottom box. If I could get orders for at least a dozen, I would be able to have another run made. What Don mentioned above is correct too.
I went to the Henry Ford Museum recently, and they have an exploded view of a real new 23-25 touring. The battery box for it was not used for some reason, probably because they didn't do the proper research necessary for the project.

[Mark Osterman]

I have an original stamped steel battery box lid if anyone is interested. $100 plus post. Message me if interested.

[Original Smith]

Russ's photo shows clearly what the battery box looks like. The seams are on two sides only, and that is what the Snyder and Langs unit lack. Not only that, but a real Ford battery case will not fit, which is typical for some reproductions.
Page 13 in the service book figure 41 and 42 clearly shows the installed unit, and page 29 figure 83. Note the battery case is the wood type, not the later hard rubber type. Also, as with most renderings in the Ford service book, the examples have been touched up, and don't show the seams.
Dan Killecut had two late lids for sale at Hershey, and neither sold.