1926 muffler not complete

[Vonau]

Can anybody help me further? I dismantled the muffler on my Touring 1926, which I want to get running again (original made in Canada). I discovered that the inner tube is not there. I have to make a new one. Does anyone know the dimensions of the pipe and especially the number and dimensions of the through holes?

How can you seal the outer pipe better?

thanks to all

[Humblej]

WOW, you have an original Ford OEM muffler-exhaust pipe assembly! That is very rare, particularly in the great condition yours is in. Regarding the dimensions of the middle pipe, I cant help you there, but as to the sealing of the outer pipe to the ends, that is just the way they are, even the repops. Be careful with that one, you will never see another like it.

[RajoRacer]

Yes indeed - original mandrel bent pipe ! If you bolt it back together, you should be able to determine the length of the center baffle by measuring the distance between the two center end rings - same with outside diameter - should get you in the ball park.

[kmatt2]

As has been said, you are very lucky to have a original Ford exhaust pipe and outer muffler shell. You should be able to buy a repo muffler for your 26 T and take the inner shell out of the repo. If the repo inner shell is a little to short or to long to fit tightly it would be easy to extend or shorten the repo as it won’t show when the muffler is put together. If you make your own inner shell make sure to assemble it with the holes toward the engine so that expanding exhaust gas goes back towards engine as it expands into the inner shell then expands again going to outer shell and out the back. I don’t know the hole size or spacing but a few holes around the middle pipe the size of the inner holes should work ok. Maybe someone can post a copy of the Ford muffler drawing showing size and spacing of the holes.

[Vonau]

Oh, I'm almost embarrassed by this feedback. I wasn't even aware of this rarity. I'm fairly new to the Model T scene.

I had to do some tweaking on the screw. I hope this will be closed.
The outer tube was rebuilt and is not very professional. I think I'll leave it with the weld seam facing up.

I am amazed by the double-layered muffler ends.....

Creating a suitable inner tube is not a problem. But I have no idea about the drilling.

greetings from Switzerland

[TXGOAT2]

If you calculate the area of the "window" openings in the exhaust pipe and double it for the total area of the holes in the inner tube, you should be close enough and the muffler should sound close to original. I don't know if the holes ought to be drilled in a regular pattern or clustered toward one end or the other of the inner baffle.

[Humblej]

Picture from the Ford US Price List of Parts. 4028 is the muffler shell-middle.

muffler.jpg (58.08 KiB) Viewed 10030 times

[Allan]

The inner baffle needs to be 1" longer than the outer shell. When assembling the whole thing, you may find it necessary to grind a bit more off the inner, to allow the outer to seat correctly. If the inner is too short, it will rattle. I use a 1 1/4" holes saw to make two holes in the end of the inner shell. It really is not that critical.

At the front end of the muffler, is there a large split pin through the pipe, up to which the front cover is pushed? This is how the Canadians ruled out having to roll the upset ring around the pipe used on US production cars.

Allan from down under.

[Vonau]

Thanks for the information.

No, there is no cotter pin at the front. Tube has a compression ring.

greetings from Switzerland

[Original Smith]

There is no inner tube! The exhaust pipe is it. You will need the cupped washer for the end, a nut and a lockwasher. Clean it up and put it on.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

There is no inner tube! The exhaust pipe is it. You will need the cupped washer for the end, a nut and a lockwasher. Clean it up and put it on.

!!! Larry, then what is part number 4028, shown above???

[Allan]

The exhaust pipe has the square holes at the rear end. The inner shell has round holes and the shell is assembled with these holes at the front, meaning exhaust gasses pass from the rear of the muffler, to the front, before exiting at the rear between the inner and outer shell.
Your muffler is typical of US production, with one exception. Most US mufflers have a simple hole punched in the rear end, and the punching is bent out on the inside edge. Yours has the riveted deflector characteristic of Canadian units, but Canadian units usually have the mounting bracket as a separate piece, riveted in place. This is why one should never state anything to do with T's as fact. To often fossil evidence will have you shot in the foot.

Allan from down under.

[KBurket]

Martin Vowel’s drawings of mufflers show differences over the years and break away/assembly views. Part numbers match the vender catalogues but no dimensions.
https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/app.php/gallery/album/39

[Original Smith]

The parts book is in error. The inner shell was only used up to 1921.

[kmatt2]

In my opinion the later type mufflers continued to use the inner shell because the forward muffler end continues to have a step in it for that inner shell to fit into. If there was no inner shell Ford would have had some more holes in the inner exhaust pipe along the length between the front muffler end and the rear muffler end.

[Lessumner]

I disassembled my muffler. My pipe has the ring formed on the pipe at the front of the muffler. I cannot exactly verify the date of manufacture. Les

[Vonau]

Thanks for all the replies and thanks Les for your information

OK, now I see the details for "made in Canada":
Also, could it be possible that this is a US exhaust with a deflector added? Were there also US silencers with the long hole at the end on the underside? Weren't these done on the side as can be seen in Les's picture?

But is the mandrel-bent pipe a sign of Original Ford?

As far as the inner shell is concerned, I think this is purely technically necessary. The sound can only be dampened thanks to the inner shell.

Were the outer and inner shells originally rolled and also crimped like the exhaust pipe? Also shows the picture of Les.

greetings from Switzerland

[Allan]

Re the square holes at the rear end of the pipe. I suggest those holes were punched while the pipe was straight. Come bending time, it mattered not whether the holes were on the side or top.The straight blank would have fitted the mandrel as it was picked up by the worker. I could be wrong.

Allan from down under.

[ModelTWoods]

My guess is why you are missing the middle pipe when every thing else is there and in such good condition is that a previous owner might have removed it to reduce the restriction or alter the sound.

[Vonau]

Yes, a lot can happen in almost 100 years. Allan must have misunderstood my question. I'm wondering if that's a US muffler with a deflector added? Was there an end cover with an opening at the bottom? From what I've seen so far, these were slightly on the side.Then the deflector could not have been added just at the bottom either.

Greetings from switzerland

[Original Smith]

So where is the small middle pipe people are talking about? I don't see it. What is there is correct.

[Allan]

Beat, your rear muffler end shows the riveted on deflector as fitted to Canadian production cars. However, usual Canadian production also has a riveted on mounting bracket as shown in Les's photo immediately preceding your photo, rather than your integral stamped mounting that is part of the end cover.

Allan from down under.

[DanTreace]

Have only one original pipe with the front plate, but it was missing the rear plate, and the shells. Guess I thought too these had a middle shell, just not the tail pipe and outer shell.

Here is a pic from Ford manual, this shows the 'missing' middle shell.

DCP_3520.JPG (81.61 KiB) Viewed 9413 times

And this drawing made by Martyn

[Original Smith]

There are two style of the 4032 muffler head retainer. They both do the same exact job. The first design was shaped like a small piece of channel iron, and the later one was just a flat stamped piece of steel with a square hole for the running board bolt.

[DanTreace]

Larry


Trying to fit a new set of repro. muffler shells to your pipe.

The inner shell is 3” x 13” like Les pictured. But the thick fold seam keeps it just bit too big in O.D.

Same with the outer shell, just too big in dia. for a nice fit to the original end plates. May have to revert to fab up new outer or beat some more on the shell rim edges

[DanTreace]

Success

After some more shaping with the ball pein both ends snugged together with the middle tube in place like original.

Now to find that bolt and locking plate to fit muffler to Larry’s repro tail pipe.

[Original Smith]

I have a NOS 21-27 exhaust pipe in my collection. It has the Ford script stamped on the pipe every 18".

[Original Smith]

If the big dished washer is correctly used against the rear muffler end, it will eliminate it getting squished like the photo above. I have used late front end stabilizer washers for this purpose, then the lock washer and hex nut. Works for me.

[mireland]

I have a 26 touring that has a very similar muffler. There is an extra piece that does not seem to be in the pics above, anyone know what this is? It rotates. When should I rotate it?

[ModelTWoods]

I have an original muffler assembly that I can take apart tomorrow , measure, and post all dimensions for you including size of hole and location from the end of middle shell. I can tell you right now that the outer shell is 5" diameter pipe and is 12" long. My muffler was good on the insides, but had pin hole rust in the outer shell. It isn't original but I replaced the outer shell with a 12" long, 5" diameter stainless steel pipe that doesn't have a folded seam and will be there when the rest of the muffler is a pile of rust.

[Allan]

It may be of interest to point out differences in the folded seam on the outside shell. On the cast end mufflers, the shell goes on over a land on the ends, and so the usual double fold seam works. On pressed steel ends the shell has to go inside of a lip in the end. To manage this the double fold is done with the proud side on the inside of the shell so the shell fits without any problems/interference/ leakage. My sheetmetal worker told me this. I don't know if Ford made the distinction.

Allan from down under.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I have a 26 touring that has a very similar muffler. There is an extra piece that does not seem to be in the pics above, anyone know what this is? It rotates. When should I rotate it?

IMG_0934.png

Matt,

That's an accessory piece. It's an exhaust deflector and should be rotated until it covers the exhaust port on your muffler. It keeps the sooty exhaust off of your rear axle housing. Its weight will probably cause it to swing back down to the 6 o'clock position, however.

[ModelTWoods]

I have an original muffler assembly that I can take apart tomorrow , measure, and post all dimensions for you including size of hole and location from the end of middle shell. I can tell you right now that the outer shell is 5" diameter pipe and is 12" long. My muffler was good on the insides, but had pin hole rust in the outer shell. It isn't original but I replaced the outer shell with a 12" long, 5" diameter stainless steel pipe that doesn't have a folded seam and will be there when the rest of the muffler is a pile of rust.

Here are the measurements of the middle pipe as measured from my original middle pipe. The pipe was not seamless tubing, but had a folded seam as was common in that day and the seams folds were on the inside of the tubing; not the outside, so as to not increase the outer diameter. Length - 13" , Diameter - 3 5/16" (although 3 1/4" would work too), Two holes are near the end of the pipe for exhaust passage. The holes are 1 1/8" in diameter and the outer edge of the holes is 3/4" from the end of the pipe. I don't have the measurement from the center of the holes to the edge but adding 3/4" plus approximately half of the hole diameter, 1/2", adds up to 1 1/4" from the end or edge of the pipe. I hope this all helps.

[Allan]

Excellent Terry. With the folded seams on the inside of the two shells, they will fit pressed steel ends precisely. However the cast end mufflers will still require an external fold on the outside shell. I have one being made to fit at the moment. Those I have in stock for the pressed end mufflers I make are too small in diameter for the cast end mufflers.

Allan from down under.