Original exhaust pipe?

[Bryant]

Trying to fix up the exhaust pipe that came with the T. It’s still solid enough to work with.
Looks old. Is it a possibility it’s an original or maybe an aged aftermarket?
Has an interesting seam going down the middle of it.
I managed to get the cutout to function with a new return spring. I can’t quite decipher the brand name. Obviously an add on.

Bryant

[mlandry]

I believe the script reads "Cooper".

[Moxie26]

Yuppers.... That's original

[Bryant]

Cooper!
wow I see it. it was making me cross eyed. i wonder if there is a matching foot pedal for it.
boy they don't make them like they used to. 100-year-old exhaust pipe and it's still good enough to use!
needs a new muffler though. Got one of those off the classifieds the other day. its amazing how everything is lining up time wise.

Bryant

[ModelTWoods]

Cooper!
wow I see it. it was making me cross eyed. i wonder if there is a matching foot pedal for it.
boy they don't make them like they used to. 100-year-old exhaust pipe and it's still good enough to use!
needs a new muffler though. Got one of those off the classifieds the other day. its amazing how everything is lining up time wise.

Bryant

The bottom end of the exhaust pipe in the top picture, gives away the fact that the owner has a late year, possibly 26-27 T and uses the muffler with stamped steel ends, and rear end of the exhaust pipe, actually is the center tube of the muffler assembly. Without cutting the rear 12 inches or so, off the pipe, a current available muffler can't be used. as they clamp on the pipe. If i'm correct, the owner mush use his original pressed steel ends and just replace the middle and outer shell. The outside shell measures 12" long and 5 " in outside diameter. I've forgotten the dimensions of the middle tube.

[Bryant]

You are correct I have a 26
The original pressed ends where still on it but I removed them to Inspect. They are to bad to re use. The new repo muffler I purchased comes apart and fits nicely on the pipe.

Bryant

[ModelTWoods]

You are correct I have a 26
The original pressed ends where still on it but I removed them to Inspect. They are to bad to re use. The new repo muffler I purchased comes apart and fits nicely on the pipe.

Bryant

As the new repro mufflers clamp on the existing exhaust pipe, I didn't think the repro front pressed end would work, so I don't know how you're doing it. The middle and outter shell, as well as the rear pressed steel end should work with no problem, though. P. S. Your pipe, although usable NOW, may go to heaven before you do, so it'd take it to muffler shop and have them make you a duplicate while you have a good one to copy..

[J1MGOLDEN]

I have two NOS Originals and a few foot cutouts.

They do not sell good, as they are not legal in any state!

[RajoRacer]

Only "specialty" muffler shops will do mandrel bends & they're far & few between. One should NOT clamp the muffler onto the front of the pipe - it's supposed to "slip".

[DHort]

I know a couple of people that do not use a muffler. They just use a straight pipe and it works fine.

[Allan]

I too would not use the pipe. It is not likely to last long, and is too valuable as a pattern to be lost. If you do have a copy made, be aware that the dent forward of the raised upset up to which the front muffler end is jammed should not be there, and may be an indication of an unwanted bend at that point.

Allan from down under.

[Bryant]

Fitting the pipe on the chassis it fits so close to perfect I don’t think the dent is anything more than a dent. I was just trying to use a part I had.
I can most likely make my own pipe as I have a bender.
But I will most likely use the pipe anyways because it’s still good. I will double check my muffler fit. Iam pretty sure it fit ok but maybe Iam mistaken.

Bryant

[ModelTWoods]

Fitting the pipe on the chassis it fits so close to perfect I don’t think the dent is anything more than a dent. I was just trying to use a part I had.
I can most likely make my own pipe as I have a bender.
But I will most likely use the pipe anyways because it’s still good. I will double check my muffler fit. Iam pretty sure it fit ok but maybe Iam mistaken.

Bryant

Its an original pipe, so we'd expect it to fit "close to perfect". No one would expect a reproduction pipe to fit any better, unless it was made from Ford prints and specs. Maybe your original pipe has nothing more than surface rust. If so, you are indeed, lucky, but unless you take every precaution to protect it from future decay, it may, or may not, outlive, you. I wouldn't take the chance. If you've got a pipe bender and experience, why not take a 'shot' at it while you've got it off the car?

[RajoRacer]

A few years back, Larry "Original" Smith had some exact copy, mandrel bent pipes made up - they were perfect !!!

[ModelTWoods]

A few years back, Larry "Original" Smith had some exact copy, mandrel bent pipes made up - they were perfect !!!

Yeah, Steve, I bought, and have, one of Larry's pipes. He doesn't reproduce anything unless he can do it right and "spot on".

[Allan]

Even Larry had to make a concession to originality with the beaut pipes he had reproduced. The annular ring around the original pipes, up to which the front muffler end registers, is somehow rolled outwards in the pipe, raising it so that it is of greater diameter than the pipe. Larry had this detail formed differently.
The Canadians did it differently too. Their pipes were drilled through and a 1/4" spit pin was used to fill the hole. Their front muffler end had a semi circular relief in the flange, and that relief engaged on the pin to be held in place. That is an easier fix to reproduce.

Allan from down under.

[John Codman]

My Lang's repro exhaust pipe fits perfectly.

[ModelTWoods]

My Lang's repro exhaust pipe fits perfectly.

Lang's exhaust pipes are made for the replacement pressed steel end 'take-apart' muffler that clamps to the end of the exhaust pipe. To my knowledge, no one since Larry Smith, has mad the correct 26-27 exhaust pipe for the original style pressed end muffler that uses the rearmost 12 inches of the exhaust pipe as the actual inner tube of the muffler. That type of pipe HAS to be 12" longer than a regular T exhaust pipe that uses a clamp on muffler because the last 12" of the pipe is inside the muffler body. The exhaust pipes all the vendors sell now, won't work with the original muffler unless it is modified to original pipe specs.

[Bryant]

Lang’s pipe and muffler kits are currently on back order.
Another vendors shipping cost are to high for my taste at the current time.
Using the original pipe because it is still good enough to use is my option.
Finding a new repo muffler on the classifieds worked out.
But as usual if you use a repo part you are a fool and if you use an original part you are a fool.
I am however glad the topic question was answered and it appears that the pipe is original so thank you.

Bryant

[Dan Hatch]

Just a question, unless you cut the original pipe off how is the repro muffler going to work? It will stick out the back of you just put it on the end of the pipe. Or is the pipe already cut off?
Get some of the correct ends for that pipe and it will look right.

[ModelTWoods]

Just a question, unless you cut the original pipe off how is the repro muffler going to work? It will stick out the back of you just put it on the end of the pipe. Or is the pipe already cut off?
Get some of the correct ends for that pipe and it will look right.

You are correct, Dan, That's why I said the reproduction muffler can't be used with an original pipe unless, of course, you replace the reproduction front muffler end with an original front muffler end that doesn't clamp onto the pipe. If a clamp on muffler is clamped to an original pipe, not only will the muffler be approximately 12" too far to the rear on the frame, the original pipe has a hole in it near the end that may, or may not be covered by the clamp on the reproduction front muffler end.

[Bryant]

I don’t think it’s that complicated. I now have a pile of usable parts and fabricate for a living.
Dan the repo muffler disassembles with ease. I will not be using the inner pipe. The engine side muffler end needs resized to fit tight on the rolled ridge on the pipe. I will not just be clamping it on the end of the original pipe so it hangs out the back looking stupid
But as I said before I now know I most likely have an original pipe. The original question of this topic.

Bryant

[Original Smith]

I forget when Ford developed that late design. I think someone with the knowledge should reproduce them. I had 50 made several years ago, and don't feel like doing it again. I think they came out in 1921.

[Bryant]

Because inquiring minds want to know. Here we go.

repo muffler broken down.

engine side muffler end needs the ID shrunken to accommodate the original pipe bead because it is designed to be a slip over. Just flip the inner pipe around backwards.

weld it.

cut the excess off.

nice and flush and smooth.

[Bryant]

slide it over original pipe end and it will stop at the bead.

drill 1/4 20 hole out to 5/16 to accommodate the original size carriage bolt.

assemble muffler.

wa-la

Bryant

[ModelTWoods]

It may not be the way FORD did it, originally, but you seemed to have made it work.

[Humblej]

Great job!

[Allan]

Neat work Bryant. Your short length of pipe in the front cover allows it to mount exactly like Ford did it. You should use a heavy, slightly dished washer on the back end when assembling the muffler. This will spread the load over the whole inner "bump" on the end.

To my eye the materials used in the making of the end covers and the mounting bracket at the rear are lighter weight than the originals. Am I correct in this? Some original ends I have discovered seem to be pressed using TWO thicknesses of lighter material. Is this another example of Henry using scrap from other areas of manufacture?

The scoring marks around the outer flange on the ends indicates that they are pressings. i have mine made by a metal spinner using heavier material. The brackets are heavier too. On Canadian mufflers there is a deflector to direct gasses to the ground in front of the rear axle. This deflector is of lighter construction.

Allan from down under.

[ModelTWoods]

Neat work Bryant. Your short length of pipe in the front cover allows it to mount exactly like Ford did it. You should use a heavy, slightly dished washer on the back end when assembling the muffler. This will spread the load over the whole inner "bump" on the end.

To my eye the materials used in the making of the end covers and the mounting bracket at the rear are lighter weight than the originals. Am I correct in this? Some original ends I have discovered seem to be pressed using TWO thicknesses of lighter material. Is this another example of Henry using scrap from other areas of manufacture?

The scoring marks around the outer flange on the ends indicates that they are pressings. i have mine made by a metal spinner using heavier material. The brackets are heavier too. On Canadian mufflers there is a deflector to direct gasses to the ground in front of the rear axle. This deflector is of lighter construction.

Allan from down under.

Allan, I have read on the forum, previously, about some of the pressed muffler ends, being of two layers of metal, laminated together. I think Ford did cut corners every chance he got.

[Bryant]

here are the originals that where on it. they are indeed two-piece pressings. the mounting bracket measures approximately 12 gauge and the repo bracket measures 16 gauge. so, originals are definitely thicker.
Henry Ford using scraps he had? makes me feel better about this whole project. maybe Ford did do things this way.

Bryant