Rear axle seal vs. shims

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Rich Eagle
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:23 pm

I have been a fan of the new-fangled rear axle seals and have them on most of my T's. The Touring requires an axle shim on both sides to give proper clearances. The shims seem to crawl up into the seal when installing the rear wheel and chew the rubber seal a bit. This time I made a shield out of .030 steel hoping it will stop the shim from entering the seal. There is ample room between the hub and seal so the shield can free float. The ID of the shield is a sliding fit with each axle shaft. Hopefully my new seals will last a very long time. The old ones still worked pretty well even after getting roughed up.
Rich
Shield.jpg
When did I do that?

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 1291
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:19 pm

That washer looks like a good way to cut the axle as it is floating and any rotation of the hub can turn it. I would maybe trimming some off the shim first or put the shim into the hub first then install the wheel. That way it will works to the outside as you put it on. If the shim is moving in use, then there are other issues, like not getting tight on the taper, loose hub worn axle taper.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


art32mor
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:21 pm
First Name: Art
Last Name: Morra
Location: PA
MTFCI Number: 14286

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by art32mor » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:39 pm

Use the inner modern seals problem solved but if the shims are moving the wheel still loose IMO

User avatar

Topic author
Rich Eagle
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:08 pm

As I said the shims "seem to crawl up into the seal when installing the rear wheel". Not moving in use. I have found no good way to keep the shim from sliding along the axle with the hub AT INSTALLATION. The spacer should turn with the axle and hub. Also it is softer than the axle shaft. If problems develop with this I will post it here first.
Thanks for the concerns.
Rich
When did I do that?


Alan Long
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
Location: Western Australia

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Alan Long » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:50 am

Sorry, I don’t understand the need for this shim. What am I missing here? Agree with others, it looks like a axle cutting
device to me and similar to what the steel thrust washers in the diff have been known to do.
Alan


d stroud
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:45 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Stroud
Location: Mound City, MO. 64470
Board Member Since: 2011

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by d stroud » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:26 am

Rich E., what Mark G. said. Put the shim in the hub first, then the shim will tend to push out instead of in. JMHO Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.

User avatar

Doug Keppler
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Keppler
Location: Fredon N.J.
MTFCA Number: 49716

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Doug Keppler » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:53 am

I thinking the same as Alan mentioned Rich. I have the same seals on my rear and I didn't use any shims like that
1924 Touring car
There's No Substitute for Proper Lubrication

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Ruxstel24 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:50 am

If you feel you must have a “slinger”, could you make it with a smaller ID and form a small “cone” inside to press fit it so it won’t move.

I have the same concerns of cutting the axle over time if floating around.

User avatar

Topic author
Rich Eagle
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:30 pm

OK.
Thanks
Rich
When did I do that?


Burger in Spokane
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 am
First Name: Brent
Last Name: Burger
Location: Spokane, Wa.
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Burger in Spokane » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:59 pm

What keeps you from tack welding the shield to the seal to eliminate both wear problems ?

A tiny tack in a 2-3 places will hold it nicely.
More people are doing it today than ever before !


Scott_Conger
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:41 pm

My experience in repairs is that that type of seal will soon be damaged by axle flexing...even with a good Hyatt bearing and new sleeve. Any number of miles on the car after installation and I've found that the seal is shot. If you are getting better service from them, that's good.

The housing is aluminum and Rich's shield is steel...I don't think that is a tack-able item.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Original Smith
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Original Smith » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:29 am

I'm still stuffing three of the thick felt seals that Langs sells in my housings. They work well, but are a bitch to put in. I like to break in the center hole for them before installation.

User avatar

John Warren
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Warren
Location: Henderson, Nevada

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by John Warren » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:08 am

Rich looks like a great idea and thanks for sharing. I have had the same problem. This is what I have done with some success.
19E42A19-0B28-4486-98F2-96AD1E5AC410.jpeg
Attachments
D132CEBF-EF77-4897-A3F9-7E030249F2DD.jpeg
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

User avatar

Topic author
Rich Eagle
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:41 pm

That looks like a great fix John. The idea of putting the shim in the hub rather than on the axle shaft sounds like a good fix too. I will inspect the assembly after some miles to see if the shield is causing any wear.
Thanks for the comments.
Rich
When did I do that?


FordFool
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:49 pm
First Name: Don
Last Name: Kirtley
Location: Devore,Ca
MTFCA Number: 23703
MTFCI Number: 23153
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: Rear axle seal vs. shims

Post by FordFool » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 pm

Locktite between the axle and the shim worked for me. Don

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic