Replacing 2-piece Valves

[MN_Ford_Fan]

I am replacing the head on my 26' and thought I would look up best practices for cleaning the carbon off the pistons and valves. While researching that, I came across the issue with 2-piece valves. Sure enough, that is what I have in my T. The valves, seats, and push rods appear to be in great condition but I feel like now would be a good time to swap out the valves for the new style.

If I buy the new valves from one of the vendors, how much can I expect to have to take off the stems for timing? Can this be done successfully using my bench grinder and a file? Anything else I should do while I have things tore down this far (head off, manifolds off)?

[Art M]

There are a lot of things to consider
1. Resurfacing the valve seats This may include engine.
removal
2. Installing hardened seats
3. Checking the valve guides for wear

I use a block of steel with a hole drilled square to a surface. I call it a donut.With a sheet of sand paper on a flat surface, I sand the final .010 inches off the stem. A bench grinder is used up to this point. Cool the stem frequently in water.

Good luck and you are welcome to borrow my .015 and 030 donuts.
We
Art Mirtes

[J1MGOLDEN]

I had to take more off the valves when I installed adjustable lifters to have any clearance at all.

[J1MGOLDEN]

[J1MGOLDEN]

My first photo ever!

The original Souix valve too was used to make a smooth edge for the contact area.

The tool is lined up with the center of the grinder wheel.

The adjustment screw on the end has 32 Threads Per Inch, so one complete turn will remove .03125 of an inch.

The screw is turned until the valve end just touches the grinder wheel and then turned an additional 1/2 or 1/4 turn or whatever amount needs to be removed.

The two screws holding the valve stem are left just loose enough to rotate the valve a full turn by hand.

It works good for me!

[Art M]

I forgot to mention that when I ground the valve seats on the 23, the wooden firewall had to be loosened in order to grind no.4 exhaust. With a 26 the engine may have to be removed.. This,would probably be the better way in the end
It would give you the opportunity to examine babbitt etc.

Art Mirtes

[Dan Hatch]

FYI: Here is an old post about the valve washers and pins.
Not sure if this was ever fixed cause I only use modern valves since this problem. If you are changing valves please read. Dan
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1450555390

[Craig Leach]

I'm thinking that the issue with two piece valves is the one of them becoming two pieces! This can be a disasterous event. Mine took out the head and a rod. Surprisingly the piston survived. I replaced the lifters with adjustable ones at the same time. I had the guy down the street that worked on VWs cut the valve stems for $8. The last engine I put together I used the two piece adjustable lifters with chebby valves I don't remember having to grind any valve stems? As far as the pins wearing through the valve spring seats isn't there a A & N washer that fits in there that could solve that?
Craig.

[MN_Ford_Fan]

Thanks all.

So I have inspected my spring cups and pins and they are all in excellent condition. Would it be wise to just reuse these rather than get new lower-quality ones? I figure I should replace the springs regardless.

Also, what can I expect when seating in the new valves? My current seats are very nice. Will it be just a few minutes of seating per valve or is the geometry different on the replacements such that seating them in is very difficult?

I watched a video online where a guy uses a vice grips gently from below on the #4 exhaust valve to grip it, pull down, and rotate it. Looked like it was fairly effective.

[speedytinc]

Thanks all.

So I have inspected my spring cups and pins and they are all in excellent condition. Would it be wise to just reuse these rather than get new lower-quality ones? I figure I should replace the springs regardless.

Also, what can I expect when seating in the new valves? My current seats are very nice. Will it be just a few minutes of seating per valve or is the geometry different on the replacements such that seating them in is very difficult?

I watched a video online where a guy uses a vice grips gently from below on the #4 exhaust valve to grip it, pull down, and rotate it. Looked like it was fairly effective.

Correct on original keepers if not worn much.

Lap them & see. likely seat will be too wide. Can use a coarser grind & finish with a lighter grit.

A correct professional in car grind would be best.

If necessary to do the best job, the motor can be easily undone & slid forward 6-8" for proper grinding access. Its much easier the you might think.
Vise grip idea is new. Going to remember this. Unfortunately #4 exhaust is the worse valve. Probably because of access.

[Scott_Conger]

Take the new valves to a shop for a quick "kiss" to ensure they are concentric to the stems and have no handling damage.

Borrow or buy a set of Neway cutters and do a 3 angle seat. With the cutters, you can easily set a nice narrow seat. There is no lapping involved when using the cutters. The cutters will make a 1 degree interference seat and within seconds of starting the motor, the valves will peen in a perfect mating seat. All of this can be done with engine in place and works very well and very quickly.

Call Neway, tell them what you're working on, and they will sell you the exact cutters that you need. The only additional info they'll require is the valve stem size so as to sell you the correct pilots.

No, they're not cheap, but if you buy a set, you will find that you have "T" friends you never knew you had before.

[RajoRacer]

Here's what can/will happen with the original valves !

[AndreFordT]

About the Neway,

here is what you need to set the seats right but... .
I will be an little egoist now.
My Neway set will never leave home.
It is right that since I have it I have a lot of model T and A friends I never knew before.
As they like to use it, I tell them to come with the block to my place and we will do the job together.
As you give it to someone you know in what state it is but you never know in what state it will come back and the repair will be out your wallet. (and is expencif)

Andre
Belgium

[Mark Gregush]

When I lapped the #4 exhaust valve, I just cut down the suction cup type handle. Now that you are replacing the valves, you should consider going a bit further, and installing adjustable lifters if not installed now. If you have the old one piece lifters, you will have fun time adjusting the valves, esp if the tops are worn.

[Darren J Wallace]

Can someone post the kit or part number for the kit that would apply to the Neway set suitable for the at Ford block? Many thanks in advance!

[TWrenn]

There's a bunch of different one's on Ebay, but I haven't a clue if any are the type you want. Check em out you might find what you need Darrel.

[jab35]

From an earlier Forum Post: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1221103739

By Richard Gould on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 01:48 pm:
"I purchase a combination 31 and 46 degree 5 blade cutter head and a 60 degree 3 blade cutter head. You need the larger cutters, either the 200 or 600 series. "

And a later Forum post:
By J and M Machine Co Inc on Thursday, September 29, 2016 - 10:03 am:

"The seat width is about .070" wide and this seat has a 60 degree angle below and a 30 degree relief angle on top. This is what is referred to as a 3-angle valve job."

I have no personal nor financial interests or affiliation with Neway or J&M machine. The passages quoted here were portions of longer more detailed offerings available in Forum archives for the dates shown. jb

[Scott_Conger]

Darren

you will want to avoid pretty much everything on eBay. Neway makes a myriad of cutters and you will never likely get exactly what you want/need, without spending even more money buying what is missing in the kit...

Give Neway a call and tell them you wish to do a Model T and their phone person will either know, or call the right guy to the phone to build up a perfect custom kit for you. That's what I did and they were wonderful. I got the cutters I needed, with the correct pilots (you must know the size valve stem hole you have or WILL have when you do the job).

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Neway = expensive...

Can I get a "ball park" idea of what expensive means with regard to Neway? $300? $1300?

I don't need a kit right now, but could have used one several times in the past year. Getting by with my old, single angle, worn out cutters, forcing them to cut, is getting old.

[Harry Lillo]

Neway valve seat cutters range in price from $100 to $200 each and pilots are in the $25 range.
I was fortunate to find an undamaged set of 5 cutters and about 10 pilots in a local used tool store for $200.
It doesn't leave my garage either.
I also have a relatively portable valve and seat grinding setup that rarely gets used because of the Neway.
Harry

[AndreFordT]

The Neway numbers:
The Guide you need is # 150-8.
The 60° cutter is # 293.
The 15°/46° cutter is # 641.

Price now I have no idea.
I bought mine 10 years ago.
I paid than $350.- shipping included.

May be you can find it cheap on the Alibaba shoping site.

Andre
Belgium

[Craig Leach]

Andre,
How much has been machined off of that block? looks like the one I built awhile back. I was going to install replacement seats but the block was machined so far the the seats would break through into the ports. Had to do the best I could with the seats. The up side it seems to have a lot of compression.
Craig.

[AndreFordT]

Craig,

As I rebuild a block I made the machine shop grind off the top for maximum 0.4mm and the bottom for max 0.1mm. Less is better on both sides but the surface must be clean for the gaskets.

About the valves:
0.015 oversize first.
Installing the cutter guide.
Use the 46° cutter till you have a clean surface.
Use the 15° and the 60° cutter to get the right surface.

This works for me every time

Andre
Belgium