New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

[rg171352]

I've been trying to find a source for a new Model T tool kit screwdriver. Are these available anywhere?

[Original Smith]

Used ones show up once in a while, and usually, they aren't too good. It would be nice if someone would make a new one, but they would have to be perfect.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

It's hit & miss but I have found 2 at N.J. flea markets. Since their unmarked they came at bargain basement prices as the sellers had no idea what they were.

[Les Schubert]

Can someone post a picture?

[rg171352]

Les, Here are a few links:

https://modeltfordfix.com/the-1911-mode ... -tool-kit/

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1512865533

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1345364465

Richard

[DanTreace]

Factory print if anyone wants to replicate. Just don't add Ford script, it was never there anyway.

145960.jpg (114.28 KiB) Viewed 12206 times

[rg171352]

Dan, That drawing is fantastic. That's what I was thinking of doing. I located a company who can make the handles with the proper fluting and another that may be able to do the assembly. Before I went further in my effort, I wanted to make sure that I'm not the only one having trouble finding one in nice shape.

[WayneJ]

There is a screwdriver on eBay now, if you search on the part number you should be able to find the listing. It is not perfect, and at $50, not cheap. The photos on the listing are clear and sharp, so if nothing else you can get a good photo of the proper screwdriver.

[John kuehn]

The print Dan has posted shows the blade to be made of tool steel which indicates it’s a quality piece of steel. But the information for the wood handle just says a “wood” handle.
If the screw driver was to be reproduced I wonder if there is a source for the type of wood that was used.

[Les Schubert]

Thank you for the pictures

[ModelT46]

The "1917" band adjusting wrench is not the correct wrench. The correct #1917 wrench had a larger opening on one end. Have several correct ones and several of the one illustrated.

[rg171352]

The print Dan has posted shows the blade to be made of tool steel which indicates it’s a quality piece of steel. But the information for the wood handle just says a “wood” handle.
If the screw driver was to be reproduced I wonder if there is a source for the type of wood that was used.

That is an interesting question. I also wonder what sort of wood they used. I feel like most seem to be painted, so perhaps it doesn't matter?

There is a screwdriver on eBay now, if you search on the part number you should be able to find the listing. It is not perfect, and at $50, not cheap. The photos on the listing are clear and sharp, so if nothing else you can get a good photo of the proper screwdriver.

Thank you for the heads up. Wow, a $50 asking price for something so rough? I'm intrigued by the butt end of the screwdriver as to what the suppliers did. This one seems to be a peened over square where as the one on Royce's site has a round metal portion. The post by Bill in 2017 looks like there were some degrees of ambiguity between the butt end. Would points be lost for this detail?

[John kuehn]

As far as what kind of wood is used the remains of the screwdriver I use to have I do remember the steel blade went all the way through the handle with the butt end exposed and smooth.
The print seems to show this. I have a few other old screwdrivers my father used on our farm made the same way. It may be they were made this way so that users could use them like a chisel. And yes I know that not a good way to use a screwdriver but some were after looking at the butt ends of them. There were times users would be tempted to do this.
I have a feeling the wood was a type that wouldn’t split and probably wasn’t pine. Just some thoughts!

[Tim Moore]

If I was to make a guess as to the wood handle I would go with spoke material. It would seem logical that Ford would use what they had lots of scrap on hand.

[Dropacent]

I’d say Tim has a good guess, and mine would be whatever would take dipped black paint without grain showing. Birch, maple , hickory, elm. I’m not sure ford had iron mountain maple when these were first made. ........looking at my original, it appears to be birch.
In a rare moment of thinking of what to do today, I’ve kicked these around. Unless you work for free, I’d say you have to get $100-125 for one ready to go that is made to the print. You’d have $500 in the first one. Only doable if you have the economy of making a bunch. How’s that target market? Someone with a real early car, that would take a reproduction. Not very big, IMHO. It may take 5-10 years to sell 50 of them.
Next to the Buckeye Jack handle , this is the hardest tool to find. When grandpa threw the flivver away, the lights were hung in the barn, and he kept the tools. The screwdriver , of all tools, had many uses and so well made they lasted forever. I’ve found 2 in all my years, and both beat to holy hell. But, still usable as a screwdriver. They are hard to find because they are still in old people’s tool boxes. They don’t look like anything to an antique dealer, to take the trouble and try to sell.
As for making the handle, that would be the fun item. Cut a V shape in two pieces of wood, and glue together to make the square hole. You have to wonder how FoMoCo did it. I’m guessing a specialized broach, after a hole was drilled.
If you take it on, keep us posted, I’d buy a brand new looking one !

[Doug Keppler]

Dan the Man

[Dropacent]

The shaft is square all the way stem to stern. That shows on the print, too. The much later , ( model A, v-8, ford tractor) screwdriver had round steel all the way through.

[Original Smith]

I have probably one of the best ones in existence. It still has the original black paint on it, and doesn't appear to have been used much. I used this screwdriver in an article on Model T tools I wrote for the Vintage Ford many years ago.

[Allan]

I have two available for sale, when the container in which they were shipped to the USA turns up! They have new handles made exactly to the factory print Dan posted, and have the square shafts as is correct. Mine were included in a shipment of stuff, and the receiver was going to post them on when I found a buyer for them.

Allan from down under.

[rg171352]

Allan, How much will they be? Are they making more of them? How many may be available?

[Allan]

Richard, these two will be $80 each, postage paid to a USA address. I have blades to assemble more, but I need to have more handles turned before I mill the slots in the grip. Subsequent ones will be dearer due to postal charges.
These screwdrivers are somewhat unique in that they have 8 grip slots in the handle. Most other screwdrivers have smaller diameter handles which means 6 grip slots.

Allan from down under.

[rg171352]

Hi Allan,

The milling is definitely the part of the venture that is especially time consuming and difficult to reproduce. What sort of blades are you using? How do they terminate at the butt end? What was your wood of choice?

Are you planning to make a lot of them?

[Allan]

Richard, I had a nice piece of teak left form another job which fitted the bill. It takes the black paint well, soaking it up so it looks much like a stain.
I don't plan on making heaps of them. Finding suitable old square blades and ferrules to use is difficult at the best of times, so I can only do them as blades come along. This means I am really limited in numbers. The last 6 I did took me 5 or so years to find the blades. Then I have to talk my nephew around to have him turn the blanks. I think Queensland hoop pine is a better match timberwise to the original timber used.

Allan from down under.

[Original Smith]

Do you press the shank into the handle, or do you use a broach to make it square before you press it in? Inquiring minds need to know this stuff!

[WayneJ]

I am certainly by no means an expert, but I had read the previous forum posts on screwdrivers when they came up, and here are my conclusions, and again I am no expert.

1.Ford didn't make their own screwdrivers, they were manufactured by outside suppliers.

2. Because of the volume of cars produced before 1920, there was likely more than one supplier involved. These suppliers were the manufactures that likely made screwdrivers for other customers in addition to Ford.

3. The screwdriver is one of the hardest tools to find for the tool kit. I believe this more due to the fact that the screwdrivers are unmarked, rather than the fact that the screwdrivers were discontinued after 1920. Other tools had running changes over time (spark plug wrench, adj. wrench and such). and it is relatively easy to find examples of each style. But not so the screwdriver.

4. Since there were millions of screwdrivers produced, there must be thousands still out there. Folks generally don't through away a screwdriver, even after it becomes too battered to use as a screwdriver. It gets relegated to the screwdriver that is used to open paint cans and such, to save the "good" screwdriver. Because the screwdriver isn't marked "Ford" folks that have one don't recognize its collector protentional, and so it just sits in their tool box or "junk" drawer.

5. The screwdrivers that came in new, 1920 and earlier Model T's, probably didn't all match the print exactly. I suspect, most of them didn't match the print, or we would see more "Ford Model T" screwdrivers out there. After 1914 production of Model T's really took off, as did production of other cars such as Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. These other cars came with tool kits including screwdrivers also. If you were a buyer for Ford, you would not want to be responsible for holding up production because of a shortage of screwdrivers. You would have bought a screwdriver "close" to the print that would have functioned the same. Probably some Model T's came with screwdrivers that had a round instead of a square shank. We will never know for certain, since the only documentation on the screwdrivers is the factory print. Plenty of Ford owners took photos of their new car, nobody took a photo of their new "Ford" screwdriver. You may have an authentic "Ford Model T" screwdriver and not know it, and have no way of proving it.

6. I am not an expert on judging, my understanding is that while more points are awarded to a screwdriver that matches the print, one would still get most of the points as long as you include a screwdriver of the approximate type. Not having a screwdriver that matches the print exactly would probably not be critical in the ranking of your car compared to others, as long as you include some type of period appropriate screwdriver in your tool kit. Again I am not a judging expert.

7. When my Dad passed, I went through his wooden handled screwdrivers to see if any of them matched the Ford print. None of them did. I took the best one I could find and repainted the handle, and this is the one that I carry in my Model T tool kit. Where ever I go in my T, one of my Dad's tools goes with me. What I lack in authenticity, I make up for in sentimentality. If I ever have my car judged, I don't believe my screwdriver will be a critical factor in the judging results.

8. Again I am no expert, these are just my conclusions based on what I have read on the forum and the various Model T publications. Here is my tool kit:

[Nathan Pederson]

This Model T thread from 2019 about screwdrivers has caused me to look in every swap meet screwdriver box since, and
now I am happy to report that last summer I actually found one! Price was one dollar.
It was a good day.

[John kuehn]

Since the screwdriver shaft went all the way through the handle they were used as a chisel among other things! Model T tool kits usually wound up in farmers tool boxes of various other tools.

[Allan]

i have three original square blades ready to make new screwdrivers. My nephew has turned me a dozen new handles to the Ford print shown, so I will be able to do more when I can find blades. Price is still $80 posted to your door. I have posted photos of them before but don't know how to find them for your perusal.

Allan from down under.

[KBurket]

Old post showing Allan’s screwdriver previously sold.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38437&p=296872&hili ... er#p296872
Nice work!

[RecklessKelly]

I have seen some of the ones pictured at junk shops and tag sales but passed them up (pre T days). I have the adjustable wrench but its frozen, any tips on how to free it up without buggering it up?

[Steve Jelf]

I have the adjustable wrench but its frozen...

If it's frozen by rust, maybe soaking in Evaporust for a few days will help.

[Nathan Pederson]

Hello Allan
One could look into using Sears Craftsman blades to build completely new screwdrivers.

Sears Screwdriver.jpg (8.99 KiB) Viewed 3225 times

I like to make Model T type screwdrivers by combining blades and wood handles found at swap meets.
Got one in each T now.

[RecklessKelly]

I'll give it a try, thanks.

[Allan]

Nathan, Thanks for the tip on a modern donor for blades. I have found similar ones here but often the shoulders on the square are a little rounded off, and it is difficult to remove the plating on others. If one goes to the bother, it is better to get the details right. The original handles on the factory drawing are a different shape coming out of the ferrule, and, instead of six flutes they have eight flutes in the handle which terminate within their length. Lang's had some reproductions a while back, but these too had a problem. The point on the blade was forged with the square on the flat, rather than being formed with the square on the diagonal. It makes for a very different looking point. T modellers who seek to build an original kit of tools like to have them correct, not just usable.

Nathan's find is an original. Its handle is well worn, such that the flutes have almost been worn off. It has been pounded on so that the end is mushroomed , further damaging the wooden handle. All this is to expected in a 100 year old tool. I would not touch its original appearance.

Allan

[Nathan Pederson]

Good insights, Allan. You're just the right fellow to make these!
And yes I will plan to keep the screwdriver I found in it's original condition.
They are really cool tools.
Thanks, Nathan

[PeterN]

Somewhere in the woods of Westborough Massachusetts you will find one. How do I know?

As an apprentice at an antique restoration shop, I was working with my mentor as he was trying to sort out a rough running engine on a T. He asked me to hand him a screwdriver. Not knowing his intention, or perhaps not knowing the blade went all the way through, I handed him the Ford screwdriver. I’m sure you’ve guessed what happened next. As soon as he tried to short out the first cylinder, the tool went whizzing by my head and into the woods. Needless to say it made for a very rough day.

We clearly didn’t appreciate the value of the screwdriver since we treated it like any other and only looked for a short while before deciding it was probably safer to not have it around and risk another electrifying event.

[Colin Mavins]

Langs has made the screw driver I believe 24.95 Natural handle but looks close to my original

[Allan]

Colin, the tip on the Lang's driver is forged with the square blade side on the flat. The T driver was made bu forging the tip with the square of the blade turned so that the corner of the square was worked down. This gives a different shape to the actual driving tip of the blade.

Allan from down under.